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Author Topic:   Hurricane Katrina
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 266 of 315 (240361)
09-04-2005 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Perhaps you can provide reasons that no one would expect that a situation would develop... when a city is being evacuated... where serious security issues might not develop and require federal oversight.

You've got me there. We are all still trying to figure out why over 100 busses left the city empty because the people refused to get on them before the storm. I asked a couple of the evacuees with children why they didn't take the free ride out, just if for no other reason than to protect their children. That to me is poor leadership. When you are without means to move yourself, and you have precious innocent children and someone comes along and says here's a free way out, and they refuse it, then bitch and complain about the lack of help.

That in itself speaks volumes. Why on earth were amphibious craft, or at the very least aquatic vehicles, not moved into theater? Flooding issues were not expected? is that what you are telling? That is only an argument for greater ignorance than I was originally positing.

They are stored in WRSK kits in various places around the country. To have been in theater in time, they would have had to have been started to be moved in mid August. That would have cost millions of dollars that we don't have. We don't even have enough money at times to order parts to fix the A/C. We've had to excuse UTA's for some members for the rest of the year due to lack of funds for billeting.

So you try to be frugal and only fly the missions that are real world confirmed. Moving amphibious craft into position before the event would not have made sence in mid august. If that were the case, we should be moving assets into regions right now to prepare for terrorists nukings. No money though. So we are moving them in as fast as possible with our "Johnny come Lately" hats on.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Silent H, posted 09-03-2005 5:43 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 9:40 AM Lizard Breath has responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 269 of 315 (240366)
09-04-2005 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by berberry
09-04-2005 9:26 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
I would expect human beings to not create rape rooms and to not enguage the people who are there to help them. I would expect anger and rage in their tones, but not a breakdown of moral values.

This goes back to a thread several months back where you and I went at it over universal morality outside of grand design. You said that you don't need a creator for ther to be univeral moral goods. Now you are saying " What do you expext these people to do" which supports my posture that there is no universal humanistic morality. When you tell people that they are highly evolved animals, they will act like such.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by berberry, posted 09-04-2005 9:26 AM berberry has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by berberry, posted 09-04-2005 10:17 AM Lizard Breath has not yet responded
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 270 of 315 (240367)
09-04-2005 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by RAZD
09-04-2005 9:40 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
I think you {guys\gals} we left holding the bag with the bottom cut off.

And it wasn't sand in the bag but something else that starts with an "S".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 9:40 AM RAZD has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 275 of 315 (240443)
09-04-2005 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
As long as the attitude continues to prevail in this country that disaster is a matter of statistics and nothing out of the ordinary, as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote from these "ordinary" disasters, they will only get worse.

This type of talk is nothing new to anybody here. This person is some kind of double talk professional but I'm not fooled.

Many times, the people who hate Christianity will plant one of there own in the group as a radical and then try to paint the whole group as a bunch of waccos. Just like when everyone says that all Christians are striving to blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors who perform them. True, 5 doctors have been killed this way, but American society has been fooled into thinking that all Christians are radical murders.

Same here with this poster. Get it straight.

If God wanted to cause this and judge the nation for it's behavior, none of us would be here. That is not what happened. Show me a true prophet who accuratly predicted this 3 months ago and warned the nation of the coming judgement, and I'll say then it came from God. But to armchair this and then pull scripture in to support it is disingenious to Christianity and betrays the poster as just someone trying to discredit anyone who follows the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 09-03-2005 7:53 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by dsv, posted 09-04-2005 11:21 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 278 of 315 (240446)
09-04-2005 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Omnivorous
09-04-2005 9:29 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
Even your own Bible contradicts that notion, you hateful, self-righteous, santimonious, morally loathsome bitch. Go re-read the Book of Job: feature yourself as one of his ninny neighbors.

That is true. If God descides it's time to judge this country, there will be no debate about it. To try to say that this was it, is pious chest thumping by the pseudo-self rightous.

As far as all the casino talk, I think anyone who built such expensive structures at the waters edge in the gulf is more a testament to human greed and stupidity than to any form of judgement of God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Omnivorous, posted 09-04-2005 9:29 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 10:03 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 280 of 315 (240448)
09-04-2005 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Nuggin
09-04-2005 10:00 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
I agree with Faith and the other Christians, we should not be sending aid to places destroyed by God, lest we face his wrath for trying to undo his works.

Again, this is obvious that one poster will paint the whole wall for everyone who claims to be a Christian. I think you are smart enough to spot a plant when you read posts by them.

If you are not, it is far easier to believe what you want about a group and if you want to believe that they are all bad, you gravitate to a fraudulent plant's post to justify it.

But where is she saying that we shouldn't be sending aid to NO. Are you making this stuff up or was it said in another thread?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Nuggin, posted 09-04-2005 10:00 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 281 of 315 (240449)
09-04-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by jar
09-04-2005 10:03 PM


Re: Casinos at the waters edge.
I think that if the legislators thought it was imoral, they should have banned it. I tend to think that there was money to be made by someone who wrote the codes from that kind of crazy construction requirements. Greed via the politicians. And stupidity by the casino owners by saying "Well, O.K."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 10:03 PM jar has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 283 of 315 (240454)
09-04-2005 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
However, you appear ignorant of history, and concepts of proper planning. As RAZD has already pointed out, commands should have been coming down before the storm hit. It did not take a genius, based on basic knowledge of hurricanes and flooding, especially around NO, to realize the potential for serious trouble was there

OK, since you know so much. Tell me how they do it in Granola tye-dyed pony tail flip flop wearin' land.

Senario - You have 3 mobile field nuclear decon hospital units. Each unit requires 4 C-5A Gallaxy aircraft to transport them into position. They require 36 hours to service prior to transport. They require 12 hours to load and 12 more to unload and then 24 hours to assemble.

You must preposition the hardware in either one or three different locations around the country, ready for either a dirty nuke or at worst, a red mercury hydrogen detonation. If you position then in remote areas for protection, you must remember to also have enough semi trucks to get them back to the cargo aircraft. You need to also get the medics and technicians matched back up to the hardware very quickly so that they both end up in the same spot ready for operation.

You know that 14 soviet suitcase nukes are in this country and could be used as dirty nukes. There are an additonal 4 modern suitcase nukes produced by islamic labs in pakistan. It is also rummored but with a high degree of certainty that at least one red mercury bomb with a 10 megaton throw weight is in this country.

So where would you Mr. Granola tye dyed ponytail flip flop wearin' genius position the 3 units so that they could respond and be set up within 24 hours to respond to a city in need who just befell an attack?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Silent H, posted 09-03-2005 5:43 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Silent H, posted 09-05-2005 5:02 AM Lizard Breath has responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 285 of 315 (240460)
09-04-2005 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by RAZD
09-04-2005 10:21 PM


Re: Casinos at the waters edge.
Of course the good people didn't want to legalize gambling on land because it was sinful, they just wanted it nearby .... the "line between saturday night and sunday morning" (Jimmy Buffet)

That's pretty good. If anything, if you are right, it's the Christians who should be apoligizing to the Non's, because if it was God's judgement, it was on the Chriatians who are serving or trying to serve 2 masters. The fallout affected everyone, but if this was from God, he's only mad at the Christians who failed him by lacking a spine.

Trouble is, when an actual judgement comes against this country, it will be dirrected towards the church which is failing the rest of the country by not being Lights to the rest of the populace. When you live a double or compromized life, you loose all effectivness and make a mockery of yourself. Nobody's perfect, but Christians should preach with their lifestyles and if absolutly nessessary, open their mouths.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 10:21 PM RAZD has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 287 of 315 (240463)
09-04-2005 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by RAZD
09-04-2005 10:41 PM


Re: Casinos at the waters edge.
If the hurricane had a personality, it had to be licking it's chops as it approached the coast and seen all the cute little boat toys to toss around.

I can't believe there was no provission to tow them 20 miles out in calmer water to let a storm like this pass.

This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 09-04-2005 10:46 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 10:41 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 305 of 315 (240520)
09-05-2005 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Silent H
09-05-2005 5:02 AM


Re: LBs fantasyland camp
Oh yes, and on top of that that same guy with his head shoved up his ass (or is it Bush's) can explain what this has to do with Katrina? Not only is this BS as it has nothing to do with proper planning for the Hurricane, it is really bizarre as you impres a 24 hour time limit for response. The feds did not respond en masse till how many hours into the crisis? That is in addition to your own admission there wasn't even a call to begin preparations until 12 hours after the hurricane hit, which is many many many hours after knowing the potential for disaster was there.

What I'm trying to point out is that the resources to do everything are limited. You have done a good job in assessing the logistics of moving these mobile centers. This requires assets. Now think of the same situation with the amphibious craft. They need to be moved in quickly but the required assets to move them are pre disposed in the event of a terrorist attack.

So you have to do some quick thinking on your feet as to how to pull away enough airlift support to go move them without jeopardizing the response of a nuclear terrorist attack. The levels or coordination to pull this off is staggering. Phone calls to crews and ground personel. Arrangements for fuel support downrange. Contingincy plans that are workable for "what if" senarios. All of this with a limited number of aircraft and personel and still supporting overseas operations in the pacific and atlantic.

So what appeared as a slow response by Bush was acctually him stepping backand letting his logistics generals make the calls and he gave them the space they needed to do their jobs.

He could have gave the order for everyone to drop everything and rush down there with their hair on fire but it would have created a log jam while looking good to the press. He had to keep the rest of the country safe while handling the hurricane. He didn't leave the back door wide open while trying to stop the rain coming in the front door.

It takes a little while to spool up a big diesel engine but once it's up on line, it can do a tremendous amount of work in a short time. You guys wanted the diesel to wind up as fast as an electric motor while performing like a huge diesel one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Silent H, posted 09-05-2005 5:02 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 306 of 315 (240527)
09-05-2005 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Silent H
09-05-2005 5:02 AM


Re: LBs fantasyland camp
And on top of that, they had several hours, if not days, notice that a large hurricane had the potential to hit a swath of southern states. You say they could not predict there'd be flooding, that a breach could occur in a levee, that authorities might not be swamped and so a rise in criminal activity?

I think that they were betting that it would not breech and lost. The breech complicated things but the violence was a total suprise. Some looting is always planned for but what happened here was not expected.

To add to this, the idea of HS and the entire "national security" concept was pitched by THIS ADMINISTRATION, as being PREEMPTIVE and PROACTIVE. I didn't say it, they did. So even without historical record to go by, someone should have thought to prepare for those possibilities.

This is where these guys had champaign dreams on an "Old Millwalkee Light" budget. It sounded good but there's not enough money to do it per script.

{qsWait a second I thought the invasion of Iraq prevented this from happening? And when did Pakistan become a threat? Well I guess if this is the case...[/qs]

Bin Laden has aquired the technology to build suitcase nukes and supposedly been supplied a cash of nuclear material to build them. The original Soviet ones are too old to be reserviced so they are only good as dirty bombs. Much harder to plant because you need a large conventional explosion to disperse the radioactive material.

I'd invade Syria or Iran and capitulate some more to Pakistan and claim to the American public that as long as nothing detonates it proves I solved the problem.

I bet India would love us for that. Make Pakistan larger.

During the load and move I'd have people plotting all potential landing areas, primary and secondary, and if they can do so, crossreferenced to potential targets. If I hadn't done so beforehand (which is really ridiculous), I'd be activating an stashing with (or close to) those units all those who are trained to operate in them.

Again, well thought out but requiring huge amounts of money. Most of these units are reserve units, they would have to be activated, paid, billeted, fed and supported by other units, most likely also activated reserves.

This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 09-05-2005 08:40 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Silent H, posted 09-05-2005 5:02 AM Silent H has not yet responded

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