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Author Topic:   Hurricane Katrina
CK
Member (Idle past 2234 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 301 of 315 (240498)
09-05-2005 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Faith
09-05-2005 3:03 AM


quote:
New Orleans has a reputation for various kinds of corruption, but also it was the nation as a whole that was hit, not just the city. 9/11 was also a judgment on the nation as a whole.

Those dirty sluts they were just asking for it! Of course this wouldn't happen to a nice girl/nation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 09-05-2005 3:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 84 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 302 of 315 (240503)
09-05-2005 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by dsv
09-05-2005 1:26 AM


Re: Cuba's hurricane response.
cuba is also used to having hurricanes, and bearing the brunt of the force of them, too. here in florida, we're a little less prepared. people in mobile homes or on the coast tend to evacuate either north or west. we tend to count on cuba and the bahamas to slow hurricanes down a little.

i live about 15 feet above sea level, maybe a mile and a half inland. we have a nice set of barrier islands here, which help. we also have lots and lots of drainage canals. i live in a solid concrete block house. we're reasonably well assured that we can take just about anything the western coast of africa throws at us. storm surge never comes this far inland or this high. wind and rain do pretty much nothing. they only REAL concern is pressure -- enough wind and the roof pops off because of the bernuli effect. it's bolted down according to code, but in a big enough storm that hardly matters.

we've never evacuated once. we might have been in the evacuation zoen for frances, but we might not. i forget. we've ridden out every hurricane we've ever had come our way, but never really had a direct hit. we sit pretty confident here -- we laughed katrina off.

cuba is VERY prepared. we're sorta prepared, but not really.

nola was not prepared at all.

This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 09-05-2005 06:28 AM


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by dsv, posted 09-05-2005 1:26 AM dsv has not yet responded

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 84 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 303 of 315 (240504)
09-05-2005 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by jar
09-04-2005 11:51 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
To try to atribute it to GOD's Wrath is nothing less than Blasphemy.

i had a thought that was similar. i know, i was ashamed too. but this one is probably a very valid point.

the cause of this hurricane's immense growth was the temperature of the gulf of mexico. that increase was caused by global warming. global warming is caused largely by fossil fuels.

the hurricane struck and destroyed the port where something like 80% of our oil is imported and refined.

the cause and effect, although probably coincidental, are strangely karmic. maybe we shouldn't be worried about pissing off god, but about pissing off mother nature.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 11:51 PM jar has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19811
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 304 of 315 (240511)
09-05-2005 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Faith
09-05-2005 3:03 AM


Faith Hate
Just to correct a few misimpressions.

let us know when you do. yours that is.

your god must love Cuba:
http:///cgi bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=988&m=295#295

the problem is that you make conclusions irrelevant to the evidence.

personally I think you owe everyone on this board an apology for your narrowminded "blame everybody but me including people who live as far away as alaska (but I'm ok I believe in my god)" attitude

but I don't expect to see one coming, because of your narrowminded "blame everybody but me including people who live as far away as alaska (but I'm ok I believe in my god)" attitude

this is the same attitude that would take the preventative measures used by cuba to deal with their cat5 hurricane and which prevented the loss of life ... and attribute that to your god, not to the people that did the actual work.

get a reality check while your on vacation, they're cheap. In fact because of the hurricane, they're on discount.

This message has been edited by RAZD, 09*05*2005 07:34 AM


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 09-05-2005 3:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 305 of 315 (240520)
09-05-2005 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Silent H
09-05-2005 5:02 AM


Re: LBs fantasyland camp
Oh yes, and on top of that that same guy with his head shoved up his ass (or is it Bush's) can explain what this has to do with Katrina? Not only is this BS as it has nothing to do with proper planning for the Hurricane, it is really bizarre as you impres a 24 hour time limit for response. The feds did not respond en masse till how many hours into the crisis? That is in addition to your own admission there wasn't even a call to begin preparations until 12 hours after the hurricane hit, which is many many many hours after knowing the potential for disaster was there.

What I'm trying to point out is that the resources to do everything are limited. You have done a good job in assessing the logistics of moving these mobile centers. This requires assets. Now think of the same situation with the amphibious craft. They need to be moved in quickly but the required assets to move them are pre disposed in the event of a terrorist attack.

So you have to do some quick thinking on your feet as to how to pull away enough airlift support to go move them without jeopardizing the response of a nuclear terrorist attack. The levels or coordination to pull this off is staggering. Phone calls to crews and ground personel. Arrangements for fuel support downrange. Contingincy plans that are workable for "what if" senarios. All of this with a limited number of aircraft and personel and still supporting overseas operations in the pacific and atlantic.

So what appeared as a slow response by Bush was acctually him stepping backand letting his logistics generals make the calls and he gave them the space they needed to do their jobs.

He could have gave the order for everyone to drop everything and rush down there with their hair on fire but it would have created a log jam while looking good to the press. He had to keep the rest of the country safe while handling the hurricane. He didn't leave the back door wide open while trying to stop the rain coming in the front door.

It takes a little while to spool up a big diesel engine but once it's up on line, it can do a tremendous amount of work in a short time. You guys wanted the diesel to wind up as fast as an electric motor while performing like a huge diesel one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Silent H, posted 09-05-2005 5:02 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 306 of 315 (240527)
09-05-2005 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Silent H
09-05-2005 5:02 AM


Re: LBs fantasyland camp
And on top of that, they had several hours, if not days, notice that a large hurricane had the potential to hit a swath of southern states. You say they could not predict there'd be flooding, that a breach could occur in a levee, that authorities might not be swamped and so a rise in criminal activity?

I think that they were betting that it would not breech and lost. The breech complicated things but the violence was a total suprise. Some looting is always planned for but what happened here was not expected.

To add to this, the idea of HS and the entire "national security" concept was pitched by THIS ADMINISTRATION, as being PREEMPTIVE and PROACTIVE. I didn't say it, they did. So even without historical record to go by, someone should have thought to prepare for those possibilities.

This is where these guys had champaign dreams on an "Old Millwalkee Light" budget. It sounded good but there's not enough money to do it per script.

{qsWait a second I thought the invasion of Iraq prevented this from happening? And when did Pakistan become a threat? Well I guess if this is the case...[/qs]

Bin Laden has aquired the technology to build suitcase nukes and supposedly been supplied a cash of nuclear material to build them. The original Soviet ones are too old to be reserviced so they are only good as dirty bombs. Much harder to plant because you need a large conventional explosion to disperse the radioactive material.

I'd invade Syria or Iran and capitulate some more to Pakistan and claim to the American public that as long as nothing detonates it proves I solved the problem.

I bet India would love us for that. Make Pakistan larger.

During the load and move I'd have people plotting all potential landing areas, primary and secondary, and if they can do so, crossreferenced to potential targets. If I hadn't done so beforehand (which is really ridiculous), I'd be activating an stashing with (or close to) those units all those who are trained to operate in them.

Again, well thought out but requiring huge amounts of money. Most of these units are reserve units, they would have to be activated, paid, billeted, fed and supported by other units, most likely also activated reserves.

This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 09-05-2005 08:40 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Silent H, posted 09-05-2005 5:02 AM Silent H has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 276 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 307 of 315 (240533)
09-05-2005 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by berberry
09-04-2005 10:17 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
quote:
not all of them were stealing things (and many who were should be honored, not reviled, since many were stealing food for their babies or buses to get people the hell out of there since no one else was doing it),

Exactly.

I saw people "looting" a grocery store and mostly I saw people leaving with things like diapers, water, food, shoes, etc.

I didn't see people breaking into expensive antique stores or art galleries.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by berberry, posted 09-04-2005 10:17 AM berberry has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 276 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 308 of 315 (240535)
09-05-2005 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Lizard Breath
09-04-2005 9:57 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
quote:
I would expect human beings to not create rape rooms and to not enguage the people who are there to help them. I would expect anger and rage in their tones, but not a breakdown of moral values.

Are you aware of the Stanford Prison Experiment?

What happens when you put good people in an evil place? Does humanity win over evil, or does evil triumph? These are some of the questions we posed in this dramatic simulation of prison life conducted in the summer of 1971 at Stanford University.

How we went about testing these questions and what we found may astound you. Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress.

We are social creatures and when put into certain situations, we will, all of us, act in ways that we never thought possible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Lizard Breath, posted 09-04-2005 9:57 AM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by Dr Jack, posted 09-05-2005 10:08 AM nator has responded

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 211 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 309 of 315 (240538)
09-05-2005 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by nator
09-05-2005 10:02 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
I find the Montreal Police Strike of '69 a more compelling demonstration; in that it was not in any way staged.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:02 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:21 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 310 of 315 (240540)
09-05-2005 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by DrJones*
09-05-2005 4:23 AM


Yahweh isn't that nice a God.
So why did your God want Hitler to kill 6 million or so Jews?

Because they rejected His Son.

They also had the audacity to follow their own scripture.

Brian


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by DrJones*, posted 09-05-2005 4:23 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 276 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 311 of 315 (240541)
09-05-2005 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by Dr Jack
09-05-2005 10:08 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Actually, I find the fact that the Stanford experiment was staged to be even more compelling.

These kids knew they were in an experiment, yet they displayed incredible emotional and behavioral changes due to the experimental conditions.

They couldn't use the justification of an actual life or death situation, or that the "prisoners" had actually comitted some crime.

They knew it was all fake, yet look what they did.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Dr Jack, posted 09-05-2005 10:08 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Phat, posted 09-05-2005 10:35 AM nator has not yet responded
 Message 314 by Phat, posted 09-05-2005 10:36 AM nator has not yet responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1909
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 312 of 315 (240542)
09-05-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by crashfrog
09-05-2005 5:21 AM


311 posts too many -- shut er down!
We are drifting off topic. As one who knows many whackos both atheist and Christian, I can only say that we end this thread with aprayer for
those ordinary folk who were affected by Katrina.

Christians, please say a prayer. As for the rest of you, thanks for your comments on Hurricane Katrina. Any new threads may be started, but lets stay on topic.

One new thread may be titled "Does Bush care about poor people"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by crashfrog, posted 09-05-2005 5:21 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12243
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 313 of 315 (240544)
09-05-2005 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by nator
09-05-2005 10:21 AM


Stanford Prison Experiment
edit

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-05-2005 08:36 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:21 AM nator has not yet responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 12243
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 314 of 315 (240545)
09-05-2005 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by nator
09-05-2005 10:21 AM


Stanford Prison Experiment
How about this example of Stanford parallels? I read about that experiment in psychology, and I totally agree with you Schraf!

We gotta shut this post down, though.

(Or can Percys new server handle larger posts?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:21 AM nator has not yet responded

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 315 of 315 (240546)
09-05-2005 10:37 AM


Way past witching hour folk
and definitely time to put this one to bed.


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