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Author Topic:   Why read the Bible literally: take two
Steve8
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 306 (240581)
09-05-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Nuggin
09-05-2005 1:54 AM


Re: Tenatively Rejected
Well, I think there may be some wiggle room for the statement 'of every animal'. Most creationists I know of, accept microevolution, i.e. evolution within a species, so it's quite possible that Noah could have taken one TYPE of every animal (i.e. one breed of dog, as opposed to two Labs, 2 Dobermans etc. - yes, I know these breeds probably were not around much in BC years, being mostly bred by man at a later date...but you get my point, I hope) and still had room for all the animals. The whole idea of 'species' is a fairly modern one, so it's hard to say what the Bible writers meant by that statement.
Re. God made man out of clay...can I ask WHY God couldn't have done that in the beginning?...our bodies do have the carbon elements that can be found in the ground today. Are you assuimg evolution to be true, therefore it didn't happen, or was there something about God that would make it impossible for him to do?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 1:54 AM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 3:34 PM Steve8 has responded
 Message 123 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 5:48 PM Steve8 has responded
 Message 124 by crashfrog, posted 09-05-2005 6:53 PM Steve8 has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 122 of 306 (240620)
09-05-2005 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Steve8
09-05-2005 1:01 PM


Quite possible?
so it's quite possible that Noah could have taken one TYPE of every animal

What makes you think that this is 'quite possible'?

Have you considered the logistics of such a venture?

You do know that the Bible also states that Noah took 7 of every clean beast on to the Ark?

The Flood and the Ark are both non-starters, they read better when they are accepted as folk tales.

People need to stop trying to make the Bible into a gimmick, it gets embarrassing after a while.

or was there something about God that would make it impossible for him to do?

Apart from god only existing in fairytale books you mean?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 1:01 PM Steve8 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 11:36 PM Brian has responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 666 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 123 of 306 (240654)
09-05-2005 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Steve8
09-05-2005 1:01 PM


Re: Tenatively Rejected
On animals - Even two of every "kind" of animal is still 2x T-Rex, 2x triceratops, 2x elephants, 2x lion, 2x warthog, etc etc etc

That's a really really big boat.

On clay - Are you suggesting that God, who created all of creation outa NOTHING, couldn't just think up humanity, but instead had to create it out of clay. Seems kinda bassakwards if you ask me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 1:01 PM Steve8 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 11:41 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 306 (240673)
09-05-2005 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Steve8
09-05-2005 1:01 PM


Are you assuimg evolution to be true, therefore it didn't happen, or was there something about God that would make it impossible for him to do?

Couldn't God have Flooded the Earth and then, afterwards, made it look like evolution via a miracle? And in that case wouldn't both the floodists and evolutionists be right?

I mean if God can do anything, can't he do anything?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 1:01 PM Steve8 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 7:49 PM crashfrog has not yet responded
 Message 127 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-05-2005 8:40 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 666 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 125 of 306 (240689)
09-05-2005 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by crashfrog
09-05-2005 6:53 PM


What God can do
Personally, I think God has created two kinds of people. Those of us who look at the natural world and see what's happening around us and those that he put here specifically to mislead us.

What's more misleading than a group of people, planted specifically by God, who spout their "true belief" as though the spoke for God himself.

Pretty devious of him to plant these "Christians" just to throw us off the track. But, then again, he's a tricky one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by crashfrog, posted 09-05-2005 6:53 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-05-2005 8:36 PM Nuggin has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 126 of 306 (240704)
09-05-2005 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Nuggin
09-05-2005 7:49 PM


Re: What God can do
But how do we know who the devious ones are? Those who have facts to lead us, or those who do not see and yet believe? Is God the tricky one or could it beeeeee?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 7:49 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 8:54 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 127 of 306 (240706)
09-05-2005 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by crashfrog
09-05-2005 6:53 PM


Yahweh Academy
Crashfrog writes:

I mean if God can do anything, can't he do anything?

But He won't do everything that is needed to make you believe (If you could be made to do so) Its like the teacher in school who drops a lot of hints yet waits for the students to finally have the "ahaa" moment and connect the dots. The teacher, capable of answering any and all problems, does not finish them but lets the students decide on the best answers.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by crashfrog, posted 09-05-2005 6:53 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 666 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 128 of 306 (240708)
09-05-2005 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Thugpreacha
09-05-2005 8:36 PM


Re: What God can do
Clearly the ones who claim to be on God's side are the ones we must suspect the most.

I think a good rule of thumb is this -- Anyone who believes that they speak for God, clearly doesn't. Anyone who professes a belief without a foundation of evidence, clearly one of the misleaders.

Anyone asking for money, misleader
Anyone "protecting" marriage, misleader.
Anyone praying for assassination...

the list goes on and on


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-05-2005 8:36 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Steve8
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 306 (240739)
09-05-2005 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Brian
09-05-2005 3:34 PM


Re: Quite possible?
Boy, I'm amazed at how many replies I've had to my postings in 24 hours!!! Thinking maybe I should have stuck to one comment at a time now, instead of addressing multiple topics lol. The replies are so much faster than a thread at say your typical blog site, man!...bear with me, I'm knew to this type of site...
Believe it or not, there have been studies into this question about Noah's Ark and the animals. Here is a link below - http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp
Also, I was curious as to how you define a fairytale...I note that the former atheist turned Christian author C.S. Lewis, found that when comparing the Bible with other fairy stories and myths of the past, there were clear differences between the two which he mentions in his book "God In The Dock" - http://members.aol.com/thompsonja/cslewis.htm
This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 3:34 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-06-2005 3:21 AM Steve8 has responded
 Message 132 by Nighttrain, posted 09-06-2005 6:09 AM Steve8 has responded
 Message 133 by Brian, posted 09-06-2005 9:33 AM Steve8 has responded

Steve8
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 306 (240741)
09-05-2005 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Nuggin
09-05-2005 5:48 PM


Re: Tenatively Rejected
If human beings are indeed made in the image of God and nothing else in the universe is, not really unusual to see him create us somewhat differently than anything else, is it?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Nuggin, posted 09-05-2005 5:48 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 131 of 306 (240759)
09-06-2005 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Steve8
09-05-2005 11:36 PM


Re: Quite possible?
Steve8, check out this page on the Nicene Creed. It explains a lot about why gnosticism is widely considered heretical as well as the attributes which the early church considered as important to unity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 11:36 PM Steve8 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Steve8, posted 09-06-2005 12:55 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2167 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 132 of 306 (240772)
09-06-2005 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Steve8
09-05-2005 11:36 PM


Re: Quite possible?
Hi,Steve, and welcome. Somewhere along the line, I read a statement by C.S.Lewis which goes approx like this--'I`ve been reading narrative all my life, and the Bible is narrative,' Any idea of where he may have said this?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 11:36 PM Steve8 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Steve8, posted 09-06-2005 12:51 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 133 of 306 (240802)
09-06-2005 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Steve8
09-05-2005 11:36 PM


Re: Quite possible?
I know that you are new to the forum and don't yet know how it all works.

Simply posting links is not really the way to carry on a discussion, I could essentially reply to your message with another link and no discussion would take place.

If you ar going to use links you should really say what you find usefull about the info on the link.

I keep urgung people to avoid using AiG as the quality of scholarship there is extremely poor, although it isnt the worst site on the Net.

As far as 'fairytale', I was being lazy, I meant myths and folk tales. The Bible contains quite a few myths that have been borrowed from other cultures, which doesn't detract from its value, but it should give some clues into its compilation.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Steve8, posted 09-05-2005 11:36 PM Steve8 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Steve8, posted 09-06-2005 12:36 PM Brian has responded

  
Steve8
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 306 (240821)
09-06-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Brian
09-06-2005 9:33 AM


Re: Quite possible?
In what way to you find AiG's scholarship very poor? (I realise that many evolutionists generally regard creationists as nutcases simply because they don't believe in evolution...I need more evidence to come to that conclusion). Re. links, I believe you gave me one the other day...why are some links ok and not others?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Brian, posted 09-06-2005 9:33 AM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by NosyNed, posted 09-06-2005 12:51 PM Steve8 has responded
 Message 147 by Brian, posted 09-07-2005 4:38 AM Steve8 has responded

Steve8
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 306 (240825)
09-06-2005 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Nighttrain
09-06-2005 6:09 AM


Re: Quite possible?
I have not heard him say that...of course, a narrative is a story...calling something a narrative does not say anything about it's truth or falsity. After all, there are true stories, false ones, and ones that have a mixture of the two.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Nighttrain, posted 09-06-2005 6:09 AM Nighttrain has not yet responded

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