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Author Topic:   Can a christian kill an alien? (no honestly)
CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 1 of 22 (240810)
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


I've been for lunch with a friend of mine who writes short stories and the like - He's currently writing one with an "alien landing" in it and the religious reaction around the world.
Here's a point we got stuck on - does "Thou shall not kill" apply to things not of this earth?
I guess we actually need some aliens to land to KNOW the answer but what do people think (besides the fact that clearly I'm making the most of the chance to have pleasant lunches before my schedule gets too busy in sept.)?

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by Nuggin, posted 09-06-2005 12:36 PM CK has replied
 Message 10 by Lizard Breath, posted 09-06-2005 5:44 PM CK has not replied
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 09-06-2005 6:46 PM CK has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 22 (240811)
09-06-2005 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


Tangential to this topic:
I recall reading an article in Analog (a science fiction magazine) about 20 years ago or so, and the laws that protect human life and human rights are specifically written for human beings, so it would be legal to kill an alien (barring some animal cruelty laws that might apply).

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 Message 1 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 10:39 AM CK has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 22 (240813)
09-06-2005 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


Well, if we look at history that commandment has never applied consistently to humans so I don't know why an alien would be much different.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 10:39 AM CK has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2514 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 4 of 22 (240822)
09-06-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


Wouldn't it invalidate...
Well, if an alien landed, wouldn't that completely invalidate special creation, therefore making the Bible and all its commandments moot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 10:39 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 5 of 22 (240835)
09-06-2005 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Nuggin
09-06-2005 12:36 PM


Re: Wouldn't it invalidate...
wouldn't that completely invalidate special creation
I guess so
therefore making the Bible and all its commandments moot
and this follows because...?

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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 6 of 22 (240836)
09-06-2005 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by cavediver
09-06-2005 1:47 PM


Re: Wouldn't it invalidate...
and this follows because...?
If you're a literallist, and your faith completely rests on the entirety of the Bible being literally true and infalable, then it follows that an alien landing, as an invalidation of a big part of the literal Bible, invalidates the rest as well.
In other words, it follows if you take an all-or-nothing approach to the Bible, as literallists do, that falsification of part is falsification of the whole.
To those who do not take the Bible literally, it does not invalidate the message of the Bible.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 7 of 22 (240837)
09-06-2005 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Nuggin
09-06-2005 12:36 PM


Re: Wouldn't it invalidate...
Demons - sent by Satan.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 8 of 22 (240839)
09-06-2005 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by CK
09-06-2005 1:52 PM


Re: Wouldn't it invalidate...
Demons - sent by Satan.
Yes, of course! The Great Deciever has sent his spawn to confuse men and turn them away from God! Ignore the fact that they aren't fallen angels, and that they use a spaceship, and that they are completely biological lifeforms just like us! It's all lies, lies from Satan to confuse you! The Bible is literally true, and cannot be wrong even if it can be absolutely proven otherwise!
Ignore the man behind the curtain! He is of no consequence!
Now, pass the plate! We'll need the donations of all good Christians to defeat Satan's lies...

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

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 Message 7 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 1:52 PM CK has not replied

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6717 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 9 of 22 (240875)
09-06-2005 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Nuggin
09-06-2005 12:36 PM


Re: Wouldn't it invalidate...
Well, if an alien landed, wouldn't that completely invalidate special creation, therefore making the Bible and all its commandments moot?
That's an interesting event to consider. If whatever landed was a bonefied new species from another planet in another solar system, it would make for a real shitty church service next Sunday. Probably shake many folk right down to the face of death.
Interestingly, the Bible makes mention of this by saying that in the last days, evil will be unleashed upon the Earth and signs and wonders will appear in the skies. It says that even the spiritual elite would be decieved if it were possible, which means that either the days are cut short or the elite are no longer here.
So if the powers and principalities of the air refer to demons, then if I were a demon and wanted to start caious in the last days, I would go for the jugular and dissasemble the Christian Faith. How would I do it? With a staged alien landing.
Sounds very bizzare but what a powerful show of evidence against special creation which is the bedrock of the Bible. If you can refute special creation, the rest of the message in the Bible makes no sence. Jesus should have died for the monkeys, scorpions and protozoa equally too.

This message is a reply to:
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6717 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 10 of 22 (240876)
09-06-2005 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


yelm
I guess we actually need some aliens to land to KNOW the answer but what do people think (besides the fact that clearly I'm making the most of the chance to have pleasant lunches before my schedule gets too busy in sept.)?
Just east of Olympia there's a town called Yelm. In it is a lady named Jayzie Knight and she has a cult following that comunicate with a 10,000 year old warrior named Ramtha.
They believe in these alien eating machines that are going to come here soon. I don't know much about them but maybe someone in this forum is a follower of Ramtha and could elaborate about the aliens.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 22 (240893)
09-06-2005 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
09-06-2005 10:39 AM


If the aliens had no myth of the Garden of Eden and the fall, wouldn't they be sinless? And therefore wouldn't death be impossible for them?
So either Christians wouldn't even try, or they would try to see if the aliens were fallen or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 10:39 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 7:00 PM crashfrog has replied
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CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 12 of 22 (240896)
09-06-2005 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
09-06-2005 6:46 PM


heh... outsiders and christians ...There are two stories that spring to mind (and I think both are from Isaac Asimov).
In one a space station concludes that the humans send to set it up must be inferior creations of God and send to the station for a purpose it doesn't quite understand (I think also it has a disbelief in earth.
In the second (and I'm not sure this one is Asimov) - A space traveller exposes some aliens without a belief system to the bible. so they nail him to a plank of wood.
And now I think about it... Doesn't Dune have the bible incorporated into one of it's belief systems?
(sob..and nobody wanted to discuss the golden path when I started a thread on it....)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 09-06-2005 6:46 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 09-06-2005 7:07 PM CK has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 22 (240899)
09-06-2005 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
09-06-2005 7:00 PM


And now I think about it... Doesn't Dune have the bible incorporated into one of it's belief systems?
The "Orange Catholic" Bible, which, if I remember my extended Dune mythos, is the holy book of what is essentially a sort of Catholic/Sunni Chr-islam.

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 Message 12 by CK, posted 09-06-2005 7:00 PM CK has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 14 of 22 (240900)
09-06-2005 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
09-06-2005 7:00 PM


The Orange Catholic Bible contains the Bible, the Koran, and many other religious texts. Gurney quotes from Revelation when describing the Baron (compares him to the Dragon).
I saw your Golden Path thread but was in the middle of A-level marking. I was too distressed by grade-inflation to comment

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Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18300
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 22 (240902)
09-06-2005 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
09-06-2005 6:46 PM


Alienated or Regenerated?
Crashfrog writes:
So either Christians wouldn't even try, or they would try to see if the aliens were fallen or not.
Many variables would change the response of planet eart. First, the "Christians" are not a country and would not be the only group of people fighting the aliens.
2) What would these aliens be doing? If they were picking people off of the streets of Paris and cutting them open, that would be far different than if they landed in Topeka, Kansas and simply started to repair their ship in the middle of a cornfield. N.O.R.A.D. would probably (not certainly) have seen them coming. Big deal, though! We saw Hurricane Katrina coming and yet it was four days before the blacks in New Orleans were treated as humans.
3) Some think that such an event would unite the nations of the world. You would still have the haves and the have-nots squabbling, however! People seem to think that the government is some mysterious entity with unlimited money and funding. It is our money, however! That is why the government waits for the people to decide to vote the help. It was this way with the Tsunami, and this way with Katrina.
If New York or Washington D.C. get hit, however, that becomes the rich peoples money, and thus...the government just goes ahead and spends!

This message is a reply to:
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