Department Of Homeland Security Inaction At the Top

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these dudes are apparently getting their news from tv, btw. but that's no excuse. i'm getting MY news from tv too. and it was pretty obvious. maybe they were having a secretary tape the news, and they review it five days later or something.

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But see, you and I are part of the reality-based community.The Bush administration is not, so was unconcerned with the reality of Katrina bearing down upon NOLA."If we just believe what we want to believe about what we want to have happen, and we tell the country that this unreality is actually what is real, then everything will work out and we will stay in power."

classic.

You are making an important point, one that I've braoched here several times.There really are two definite approaches taken by folk. On is based on evidence. The other is based on belief.We invaded Iraq because leadership believed. They believed Iraq = 9-11.We did not prepare for Katrina because belief. Folk believed it was too expensive to prepare for a 300 year storm.Evidence said Iraq != 9-11.Evidence said there would be a 300 year storm. And that there will be others.Can we continue to have people in positions of power that work from belief instead of evidence?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I believe this is in part the question Farva/Ben is asking in his thread on science in govt.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Wrong. Everyone believed. Wrong. If so where is your source?

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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Well I sure as hell didn't. So you're wrong on that one.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You are living in a very delusional environment. There was a very large and vocal group who denied the claims made. They did not believe. The intel community itself was divided and this FACT is within the Senate Intel Report on Iraq.It was only the CIA which had certain beliefs and cherry picked data to support those beliefs, and had the ear of the administration over other agencies. The State Department's intel office was openly against the CIA's interpretations, and as it turns out was very right.In any case, the CIA itself was against any ties between Iraq and 911. So you would be wrong there as well.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Let me ask you something. Completely off-topic, so just answer the question and don't start a discussion.Is the CIA part of the executive branch or the legislative branch? If they're part of the executive branch, then when members of Congress see CIA evidence, did they get it by asking the CIA directly and getting all the relevant information handed right to them, or do they get the evidence because members of the executive branch handed it to them?

I'd always been under the impression that the neo-cons wanted to invade Iraq even before the 2000 election, let alone 9-11 (the articles advocating it are probably still on the website of Project For The New American Century or whatever they called themselves).I think the leadership believed they could get away with the Iraq war if they made the American public believe Iraq = 9-11 (and you know what, they were right ).Anyway, this is all off topic so I expect AdminJar will be along presently to tell us all off Maybe you should start up a new thread since this is an interesting and important issue (the reality vs. belief thing rather than just the Iraq war component).

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

i didn't.neither did anyone at the two protests i went to.

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אָרַח

You are correct. I am wrong.Let me rephrase. Not everyone believed he had WMD, just most people in Government(s) with intelligence, including the US.

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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Again with this bullshit list.First of all some of these are people you routinely criticize for being stupid, so what difference does it make what they say? Second, not one of these people are making the connection that Bush and Co had made and which Jar was criticizing (Iraq = 911). Third, some of these people are discussing opinions based on info that the pres delivered and stamped as credible from the CIA, which as it turns out was wrong.Finally, there were more intel agencies than the CIA, which was the only intel agency to back some (and even then not all) of the WMD claims. Other intel agencies (and some CIA analysts) doubted the favoured interpretation of evidence by Tenet and a majority of CIA analysts. The Senate found CIA mistakes to be quite bad, and other intel agencies to have worked properly.In any case, the CIA did not back any connection of Hussein to 911.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Yeah, doesn't the truth suck?

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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Not for me, but it must for you, otherwise you wouldn't have to keep carting out those quotes as if they prove something, and then refuse to deal with the responses.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

moving the goalposts, eh? the administration suckered everyone into believing that iraq had wmd, yes. we all know that. care to find any quotes from those people afterward about how they were wrong? i'm sure you can find a bunch from kerry.

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אָרַח