Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
10 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Help Lizard Breath Save Bush from Hurricane Katrina
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 91 of 205 (241333)
09-08-2005 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Tal
09-08-2005 12:39 PM


Re: 13% say Bush is mostly responsible
Fortunately Tal's possition here is very consistent. We shouldn't rush to blame the president. I'm sure that if you were talking to him in in ninties he would have a been a staunch supporter of Clinton.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 12:39 PM Tal has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 92 of 205 (241336)
09-08-2005 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Tal
09-08-2005 12:39 PM


Re: 13% say Bush is mostly responsible
Like the left's many other attempts to get Bush, this one has had zero effect. Blame Bush for everything! Keep it up. You aren't convicing anyone. Send me your hurricanes, Cindy Sheehans, false reporting with forged documents, and Michael Moores.
You hypocrite. Who said the left is trying to blame everything on Bush (with regard to Katrina), or that anyone blaming Bush is on the left?
This thread in a sense sets up that Bush does SHARE blame in the response failures to Katrina. However it would not support at all the claim that he is most responsible for the problems, nor even that federal agencies are most responsible. So it is not advocating what you have chosen (the 13%) to represent the "left's" side. Yet many left people here have been supporting the OP's point and thus do not fit in that 13%.
Why you continually let Bush get a pass for everything is what is the topic of this thread? Why does he avoid all blame that comes his way? Why do you feel that it is important he must be seen to be a demigod?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 12:39 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 1:15 PM Silent H has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 93 of 205 (241342)
09-08-2005 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Silent H
09-08-2005 12:37 PM


Re: The Plan
Your poor logic skills, and grasp of basic science, does not suggest that wherever you went "worked" for you.
Thanks, but I scored a 28 on the ACT and I have a 120 GT score (which is top 2% in the military.
You seem to avoid logic in your arguments (or analyzing your citations), and repeatedly mischaracterize scientific theories.
I would say the same thing about you. Difference of opinion I guess.
But again I point out the irony, the Iraq War's premise is that gov't is the solution to all your problems. Maybe now you can understand why people with conservative positions actually can dislike the Iraq War.
Defense of the Nation is the Government's responsibility. Our Government is how we talk to other Governments, unless you'd like to head to Iran and try to get them to discontinue their nuclear aspirations.
Wealthy and corporate recipients use their benefits to create personal wealth to remove money from the economy.
Yeah, they don't spend their money at all huh? They don't buy houses that employ hundreds of people or buy stock in companies that employ thousands of people. They don't buy nice cars that employ manufacturers. Who is the one with the logic problem here?
In fact in Chicago there was a scandal when a person died outside of a hospital because he was not covered and so they could not admit him.
Source?
I'll call BS on this. My mom is a nurse and has worked mostly in big cities in Florida (Miami/Dade). They don't turn anyone away. It is illegal to do so. If a hospital did that then the administrators can be brought up on criminal charges. If someone goes to a private hostpical and needs help, they MUST be seen. Once they are seen, they can then be sent to a charity hospital or the hospital can that person because there is a rule that hospitals take X charity cases in a quarter.
So, you are wrong holmes.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2005 12:37 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2005 4:31 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 94 of 205 (241344)
09-08-2005 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Silent H
09-08-2005 12:40 PM


Re: The Plan
That's a link, not a response. And the link does not prove anything. It doesn't state whether they had sex ed education before or not, and whether the proposes solution is to cut sex ed and teach abstinence only.
Let's assume either 1 of 2 things:
A. They had no sex education or some sex education.
B. They weren't taught abstinence.
That school has 65 pregnancies.
My school, which taught abstinence, had 1 pregnancy.
Both had the roughly the same population.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2005 12:40 PM Silent H has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 95 of 205 (241351)
09-08-2005 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Tal
09-08-2005 12:22 PM


Re: The Plan
So are you suggesting I am the only human on earth with self control?
Hehe, sometimes I think that's the case
Seriously, not everyone shares the same views on sex. Some people are legitemetly curious and want to try it. It's not necisseraly a bad thing either, I don't belive that the only "good" sex is within marriage.
Anyway, for those people who choose to try sex, the proper attitude tward it should be emphasized. Namely, respect, mutual concent, and proper protection.
I think making people feel guilty about their desires and imploring them to curb or fear them is wrong. By all means no one is encuraging the promotion of promiscuitey, however telling kids to run the other way from sex all together is just as inapropriate IMHO.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 12:22 PM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Lizard Breath, posted 09-08-2005 4:41 PM Yaro has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 205 (241352)
09-08-2005 1:08 PM


Sex Ed is offtopic.
There should be NO more posts or replies relating to sex-ed in this thread.
Please folk.

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
Message 1
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 97 of 205 (241355)
09-08-2005 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Silent H
09-08-2005 12:47 PM


Re: 13% say Bush is mostly responsible
Who said the left is trying to blame everything on Bush (with regard to Katrina), or that anyone blaming Bush is on the left?
Where is all the critisism coming from? The right?
This thread in a sense sets up that Bush does SHARE blame in the response failures to Katrina
Bush and FEMA are not responsible for setting up hurricane contigency plans for LA or New Orleans, nor is FEMA a first response agency. That is the job of of Governor and the Mayor of NO. Bush declared the emergency before Katrina hit, but can't interevene until the Governor asks. FEMA was prepositioned to help. The Red Cross tried to get supplies into NO after the storm, but were turned back by the LA Dept of Homeland Security (which has nothing to do with the Federal Department of Homeland Security).
What more could Bush have done?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2005 12:47 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Peal, posted 09-08-2005 3:27 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 108 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2005 4:50 PM Tal has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 98 of 205 (241357)
09-08-2005 1:17 PM


Sex Education Thread
I have opened a Sex Ed. Thread to re-rout the Sex Education stuff.
http://EvC Forum: Sex Education -->EvC Forum: Sex Education

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 99 of 205 (241382)
09-08-2005 2:36 PM


National Weather Bullitin
National Weather Service message from 10:11 in the morning on Sunday:
10:11 Central Time- Devastating damage expected. Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with unprecedented strength rivaling the intensity of hurricane Camille of 1969. Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fall, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. The majority of industrial buildings will become non-functional, partial to complete wall and roof failures expected, all wood-frame low-rising apartment buildings will be destroyed, concrete block low-rise apartments will sustain major damage including some wall and roof failure. High-rise office and apartment buildings will sway dangerously, a few to the point of total collapse. All windows will blow out.
The hurracane hit monday, and nothing significant was mobilized till AFTER the hurracane.
Just thought I would add this to the mix.

  
Peal
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 100 of 205 (241402)
09-08-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Tal
09-08-2005 1:15 PM


Re: 13% say Bush is mostly responsible
Tal you said:
Bush declared the emergency before Katrina hit, but can’t intervene until the Governor asks.
Please tell me what she is doing in this letter to Bush two days before landfall.
404
Pay attention to this part of the letter.
Pursuant to 44 CFR 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.
“supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives.” is a broad statement and can have different meanings, like what do you need, how much, and when. It is pretty vague, but it could mean “Intervene right now with everything you’ve got to help evacuate people and rescue survivors after the fact.”
In time we will find out what she asked for, but she asked Bush for something. I think it was immediate intervention.
Edit: Changed recover survivors to rescue survivors
This message has been edited by Peal, 09-08-2005 04:18 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 1:15 PM Tal has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 101 of 205 (241424)
09-08-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Tal
09-08-2005 10:41 AM


Re: The Plan
NYC and Boston and San Francisco and Chicago have been run by liberals for quite a lot of their respective histories, and they are some of the greatest cities in the country. NYC is one of the greatest cities in the world, an has been traditionally liberal for a long time.
quote:
I agree.
OK, great, but the reason I wrote the above was because you said:
quote:
This liberal idea that Goverment is the answer to everything doesn't work. Look at NO. It is the perfect example. It's been run by liberals for 60 years.
If you agree that most of the greatest American cities, including NYC which is one of the greatest cities in the world, have been largely run by Liberals with liberal policies, then you are being completely inconsistent if you blame NOLA's problems on liberal leadership.
Right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 10:41 AM Tal has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 102 of 205 (241425)
09-08-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Yaro
09-08-2005 10:54 AM


Re: The Plan
deleted by author
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-08-2005 04:16 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Yaro, posted 09-08-2005 10:54 AM Yaro has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 103 of 205 (241426)
09-08-2005 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Yaro
09-08-2005 10:54 AM


Re: The Plan
Actually, many people go on welfare because of a medical emergency and no health insurance, and many others are women who had to flee an abusive husband or boyfriend.
Also, most of the people on welfare are children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Yaro, posted 09-08-2005 10:54 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Yaro, posted 09-08-2005 4:18 PM nator has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 104 of 205 (241427)
09-08-2005 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by nator
09-08-2005 4:16 PM


Re: The Plan
I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have any stats. to back it up? I belive you, but so far Tal hasn't shown the stats indicating that the vast majority of wellfare recipiants are crack-moms popping out babys to boost their paycheck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by nator, posted 09-08-2005 4:16 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by nator, posted 09-08-2005 7:35 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 105 of 205 (241430)
09-08-2005 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Tal
09-08-2005 12:50 PM


Re: The Plan
Thanks, but I scored a 28 on the ACT and I have a 120 GT score (which is top 2% in the military.
I didn't take the ACT, but I beat you on the other. When I took the officer's aptitude test I was told I had the highest score they'd seen in the MidWest region for years, perhaps longer.
Of course, haven taken the SAT and the test to which you are refering, I have to ask exactly what that has to do with what you are doing now? In addition as far as I know none of them require you to know scientific theories, which you rarely state correctly.
I would say the same thing about you. Difference of opinion I guess.
No in this case it is a matter of fact. How many threads are there currently where you have misanalyzed your citations, I have rebutted your position, and you disappeared?
This is not to mention the numbers of others who have done the same thing, in particular challenging your strange theories about science. People challenge and you flee.
Defense of the Nation is the Government's responsibility
Exactly. So defending the nation against natural disaster's is its responsibility which would include good flood management techniques.
As far as Iraq goes, what does this have to do with what I said? The argument now is NOT about WMDs. The argument NOW is that we need to build nations and help other, poorer and repressed nations out so that they will grow strong and not be our enemy. That is the same reasoning which underlies building portions of our own nation.
unless you'd like to head to Iran and try to get them to discontinue their nuclear aspirations.
Iran?
Yeah, they don't spend their money at all huh? They don't buy houses that employ hundreds of people or buy stock in companies that employ thousands of people. They don't buy nice cars that employ manufacturers. Who is the one with the logic problem here?
See this is where you prove your poor logic skills. I did not say they did not spend money at all. Certainly they spend money. The portion of the money they make however which is spent (which means goes back into the economy) is smaller than that which they save, when compared to the poor. Thus giving money to the poor is essentially pumping money straight into the economy. The same is not true for giving money to the rich.
And what's really funny is you move on to prove my point. They buy stock in companies which "employ people". Tal, they buy stock in companies so that they end up getting more back than they put in. That's the whole point of owning stock, unless you are a complete moron.
So let's recap, they spend less percentage of the money they make, and some of the money they make is used to pull more money out of the economy.
By the way I have nothing against rich people or corporations. I think people should be allowed to accumulate wealth. But to pretend they are somehow better, and attribute bizarre philanthropical principles to their financial management, is mere idolatry on your part.
I'll call BS on this.
That would be correct. Its been years and so I forgot the exact story, and it turned out to be policy on where workers could work. Policy was that they couldn't work on someone outside the hospital and so they watched a person dying steps from their door while people pleaded with them to help. It was not that he was uninsured. My mistake trying to remember an event from 1998. And looking it up I found out the family ended up suing and winning damages.
So, you are wrong holmes.
Well yes and no. I reported that one case and I was wrong. However I am not wrong that you cannot get certain tests until you are in an emergency setting if you are uninsured. At least that was the way it was up until about 5 years ago, when I finally got insurance and so was able to be tested.
You also did nothing to address my arguments regarding HMOs vs socialized medicine, and the cost of not treating the poor in a preventative fashion.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Tal, posted 09-08-2005 12:50 PM Tal has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024