There is no such thing as The Bible

Steve, are you saying that you need to be told, by a deity, how to tell the difference between right and wrong?If you were not a Christian, or, better yet, if the Bible was just a fairytale, would you go out and commit rape, murder, and theft? Is your religion really all that keeps you from turning into a mindless sociopathic killer?That's what you seem to be saying. If "Daddy" doesn't tell you it's wrong, and threaten to punish you, you'll do it no matter how evil it is.Jar is pointing out that a super-father figure, ie, God, is not necessary for morality or to add weight to the messages in the Bible. I know that, for me, a big part of the reason I am a Christian is becasue this is the way I would want to live my life anyway. Is it different for you?Let's try more examples. The old traditional fairy tales all have some message, some moral to the story. But the stories themselves are obviously totally bogus. Do the stories then teach absolutely nothing?Jesus told parables to get His message across. They had no real basis in reality - He wasn't talking about actual events. Just a story to get His point across to those listening. Does His point have less value somehow becuase He was speaking about fictional events?The Good Samaritan story likely never happened - Jesus was trying to get across the point that those who say they are righteous are often not, and those who are overlooked and considered unrighteous often do God's Will better than those who claim to do it. The story was also an excellent guide for how God wants us to treat each other, regardless of race, nationality, or creed. Is that message less valid because the story was fictional?

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Without authority, one can be 'moral' according to one's own arbitrary standards. That's about it. Though even on that basis, I doubt people are always 'moral' without exception. If only there was a morality that can be grasped by everyone without any connection to 'religious' worldviews...but as I pointed out, there are plenty of examples that show that is nothing more than a pipe dream.
Without a system of beliefs that promote that morality, it cannot survive on it's own for very long. I think if you spent some time living in societies that have a less religious culture than America's, you would soon see what I was talking about. I lived in the UK for 14 years, I've seen how a decline in religious belief has lead to a coarseness of culture, that, 25 years ago, was restricted to those in the punk movement...it has since spread to some TV show hosts where the language is ridiculous. Like a frog in the kettle, slowly being boiled alive, the culture just keeps drifting away from God, not realising what it is becoming as a result.
Of course, if you are not a student of history, you wouldn't know this...I was never interested in history at school, but since I became a Christian, I've realised that was a big error..after all if you don't learn from history's mistakes, you will be doomed to repeat them. Maybe you should try living in a culture where 'love your neighbor as yourself' isn't believed. Then you will realise it's not my 'lack of understanding' that's the problem.

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Without authority, one can be 'moral' according to one's own arbitrary standards.

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Which simply confirms what I said. You don't have a concept of morality - only obedience to authority.

Demonstrable worth? Without a worldview to define what that is, how would you define that?

Steve, here in Germany, we have the same "decline of religion" as in the UK. We have 1 case of murder or manslaughter per 90,151 citizens, whereas the US has 1 m/m per 17,918 (year 2002 statistics). So you are battling a strawman, unless you mean to say that "using bad language" is worse than capital crime.

would you rather be treated well or oppressed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jesus tells people he is going to tell a parable(s) before he shares them...he does not introduce any OT story on the basis that's it's a parable. Again, the Jews did not write the OT as a fairytale but as their history...I've seen some of them together discussing it assuming that.
Only those with an anti-supernatural bias could have a problem with the miracles in the Bible. Even the Bible does not suggest that miracles are everyday events, (which many myths do, another point you fail to grasp), but recognise that only something outside of nature could cause miracles to happen. Your notion that all religions equate their histories as fairytales is not correct at all...but of course, if you view all religions as the same, you wouldn't be able to see that difference.
Re. morality, I'm a former atheist, so I have changed my stance on a number of issues (though not the ones you mentioned), believe me, I did not become a Christian because it fit my views of morality to a tee, by any means.
I have alot in common with C.S. Lewis, a former atheist and how he became a Christian actually (though I was not schooled in ancient literature like he was), despite the fact he died a few years before I was born.

And that's bad, why? I don't need a cop to tell me not to steal. I wouldn't do it regardless of whether I would face consequences. Many atheists feel the same way. You don't need God to make you a decent person.Hell, most of the atheists I've met are better people than the vast majority of Christians I've spoken with. Not what we're talking about. Morality is subjective, yes. But Christianity is just as much a "competing worldview" as anything else. Many non-Christians hold to "love your neighbor" just as strongly as Christians, and they don't believe in the Bible. Most non-Christians believe it's wrong to cheat on your wife, or to steal, or to kill someone, and that lying is bad, and they didn't need a literally true Bible to tell them so. Right, becasue the past was so much better and closer to the teachings of Jesus. When blacks would be beaten and lynched for being black. When homosexuals were reviled as a plague of society and often faced violence if they let their orientation be known. When women were the property of their husbands. When children could be beaten and the prevailing philosophy was "spare the rod, spoil the child." All of these things came out of a "Christian Worldview," Steve. Christians who believed in the literal truth of the Bible. Who believed that "love your neighbor" had authority. It didn't prevent them from being monsters. It doesn't prevent the still-existing throwbacks to those eras from being monsters today.Meanwhile, most atheists are perfectly moral people. They might not always like Christians (many can be pretty pushy and preachy, as I'm sure you are aware), but they don't kill, steal, rape, murder, or anything like that. They donate to charities, they help people in need. They're like the Good Samaritan - the Christians of the world today are walking past the sick and injured, treating those who a re different like dirt. The atheists and other non-Christians often behave like the Samaritan of the story, and do the right thing, even though they are under no command from God, and don't even believe He exists.Obviously this is not true for everyone. There are good Christians and bad atheists. But the "worldview" of the person is irrelevant. Some people do good, and they don't need God to tell them they should. "Do unto others" is not exclusively Christian, and it doesn;t require the Bible to be literally true to have value. I think you need to study more history. Being "closer to God" by your standards doesn't have anything to do with less evil in the world. The absolute worst atrocities ever committed on this planet have been done by Christians. The Holocaust? Christians, and others. The Inquisition? Christians. The Salem Witch Trials? Christians. The Crusades? Christians.The value of the message of a story has nothing to do with its literal truth. The Christians who performed the atrocities I mentioned above believed the Bible to be literally true, just like you, and the "authority" didn't prevent them from being evil. Jesus' message of being good to each other and helping those in need is meanwhile considered valuable by even those who don't believe the Bible to be true at all, let alone literally.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

What you said had absolutely nothing to do with my post. You didn't reply at all.So I'll say it again: the parables of Jesus were not literally true events. They didn't happen, and Jesus never pretended that they did. But the stories taught lessons. Are those lessons not valid becuase they didn't ever happen?If Jesus told a parable about a man who said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," would you not consider it to be a valid lesson of great worth simply becuase no such man existed or said those words?Ill be more blunt, since you don't seem to get it. If stories that aren't based on actual events have no instructional value, then Jesus' parables were irrelevant and worthless, becuase they were fictional stories meant to tell a lesson.So, if you say that Jesus' message has no value if He never lived, then you also say that His parables had no value.Is that more clear?

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Like I said, it doesn't matter what I think, there are other people who would disagree with me, that is my whole point. There have been cultures that value betrayal more than love, for example...your arguments can only work with certain cultures. You need alot more than some 'valid statements'.

I do have a 'concept of morality'...but it's not an arbitrary one that I made up out of thin air.

And if you base your morality on an alleged authority what is to stop someone disagreeing with you ?

Well I'm glad that you didn't make your morality up out of thin air. But if you really have a proper understanding of morality why are you talking about authorities all the time ? Morality isn't and can't be decided by authority.

But you are simply proving my point..if we are all so inherently good, why is there so much evil in the world, even when we are taught to be good??? The fact is, the Bible has got that point nailed...we ignore that at our peril.
Re. Christians and racism for example....the racists were a perfect example of people going according to the cultural traditions of their day. If it weren't for the Christians of the day who fought it, it would still be with us. The fact is sometimes a culture can be right and sometimes it's wrong...but if there is nothing other than one's own opinion re. morality, it makes it that much harder to correct a culture's course.
But you haven't answered the question, why do people believe it's wrong to do the things that have been listed...because that is just the way the culture is right now??...do you think 'going with the flow' is always the right thing to do??? If not, why not? What else is guiding you...do you know???
Re. the past, yes atrocities have been done in the name of God...but, going by bodycount, there were far more deaths under secular regimes (Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, China) in the 20th century than the whole of history put together...if you think the world is safer when people become their own gods and own arbiters of morality, then I'm afraid you haven't learned the lesson of the 20th century...which means no doubt, if your view holds sway, that the 21st century will be no different. I hope not.

They can disagree with me if they want...but that raises the mystery, if there is no authority for what they are saying, why believe it??? Convenience? Because their parents did? Because that's what they were taught in school? Because their culture says it's the 'right' thing to do, for whatever reason?
I believe that people believe what they believe because it is actually an authority to them, whether they realise it or not. I think it's healthier to question authority, find out what's behind it, to make sure it is the real thing, than just go along with it without knowing why you are.