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Author Topic:   Evolution of Behavior
igor_the_hero
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 39 (243159)
09-13-2005 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
09-13-2005 10:27 PM


In the original copy of The Origins Of The Species, that is what Charles Darwin wrote. It may say differently in the revised editions. You can not deny that other scientists have said the same thing.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 09-13-2005 10:27 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by nator, posted 09-14-2005 12:20 AM igor_the_hero has not yet responded
 Message 34 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2005 12:32 AM igor_the_hero has not yet responded
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 09-14-2005 7:45 AM igor_the_hero has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 32 of 39 (243186)
09-14-2005 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 9:14 PM


quote:
A man commits rape, that is because he felt the urge. Not once did society show itself there.

Are you honestly trying to say that culture has nothing to do with if a man feels he has the right to rape a women?

What do we call men who has had a lot of sexual partners?

What do we call a woman who has a lot of sexual partners?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-13-2005 9:14 PM igor_the_hero has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 33 of 39 (243188)
09-14-2005 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 10:39 PM


Can you please quote the Origin Of Species (please include the page number) in which Darwin defines evolution as you describe?
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 Message 31 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-13-2005 10:39 PM igor_the_hero has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 180 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 34 of 39 (243194)
09-14-2005 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 10:39 PM


Interesting trivia
Darwin didn't use the word evolution in the first edition because of its implications of a progressive process. (He did use the word in the final paragraph, but this was in a different context). I am reading the first edition at the moment, I'll let you know if I find anything that supports your position.
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 Message 31 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-13-2005 10:39 PM igor_the_hero has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 39 (243254)
09-14-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 10:39 PM


In the original copy of The Origins Of The Species, that is what Charles Darwin wrote.

No, it's not.

You can not deny that other scientists have said the same thing.

I can, and do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-13-2005 10:39 PM igor_the_hero has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-14-2005 4:55 PM crashfrog has responded

  
igor_the_hero
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 39 (243408)
09-14-2005 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
09-14-2005 7:45 AM


To move lower is entropy confirming creation. To move in the same direction would not be a change, just a descendant. To move higher is evolution.


If life wasn't meant to be lived then why is there death?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 09-14-2005 7:45 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Cal, posted 09-14-2005 5:27 PM igor_the_hero has responded
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 09-14-2005 6:51 PM igor_the_hero has not yet responded

  
Cal
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 39 (243426)
09-14-2005 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by igor_the_hero
09-14-2005 4:55 PM


The delusion under which you are laboring has a history which predates Christianity. It is Aristotle's scala naturae, or: "Great chain of being", and is rejected by modern biologists as an imposition of human value systems on a value-free biological world. It is not hard to find it reflected in the language of naturalists in Darwin's time, and even today there are many (mostly laymen) who continue to make this error. I hope we can soon reach a point where this detail can be regarded as adequately addressed here, because I was sort of looking forward to seeing some actual discussion on the evolution of behavior (which was purported to be the topic of this thread).
This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-14-2005 4:55 PM igor_the_hero has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by igor_the_hero, posted 09-14-2005 5:32 PM Cal has not yet responded

  
igor_the_hero
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 39 (243430)
09-14-2005 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Cal
09-14-2005 5:27 PM


I apologize for bringing this so far off topic. I will withdraw from this post so as to cause no further argument on this subject.
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 Message 37 by Cal, posted 09-14-2005 5:27 PM Cal has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 39 (243470)
09-14-2005 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by igor_the_hero
09-14-2005 4:55 PM


To move lower is entropy confirming creation. To move in the same direction would not be a change, just a descendant. To move higher is evolution.

Entropy refers to changes in the energy content of systems. Changes in the morphology over successive generations of a population are not changes in entropy.

But none of that really address the point I made in my post, which is, you are wrong to attribute your quote to Darwin; he never wrote what you said he did.


This message is a reply to:
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