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Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Department Of Homeland Security Inaction At the Top | |||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Yeah, that about does it.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1370 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
That's fair, but I think it applies to local, State, and Federal agencies. uh, no. it doesn't. fema did not follow the official plan, and dhs fumbled the bit that would have allowed fema to act. apparently, chertoff thought he had to specifically declare nola to be an "incident of national significance" which he waited several days to do -- not allowing fema to even come into play. he failed to realize however that although not all "incidents of national significance" are national disasters, all national disasters are automatically incidents. in other words, chertoff got in the way of fema acting, when they REALLY had authority to act from the 27th or so. basically, that's the reason for the slow response -- -- chertoff followed the plan, but not in a timely manner, and in a short-sighted kind of way. the plan itself was not the flaw here.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Well, for that much there needs a be culling of FEMA leadership.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1370 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Right. I may be on the other side of the political spectrum but I agree that there are some problems here. There needs a bipartisan investigation of this for one. amen.
I don't even like the look of the President being in complete control of whatever inquiry there is going to be. truthfully, i don't like the look of the president being in complete control of ANYTHING. no matter who the president is, too. this is not an anti-bush thing. frankly, the ability of the president to completely control things locally in the event of a disaster scares me, but i regocnize that swift order is needed in certain circumstances. the problem here is that swift order did not come.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1370 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Well, for that much there needs a be culling of FEMA leadership. yes. at least brown is gone. imho, i think he should have actually been fired, at the very least. so should a few other from their ranks, especially those with little to no qualifications. also, i think chertoff from dhs needs to go, and we need to seriously investigate them too.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1370 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
here's some more info i've been finding:
quote: and for all those whining about blanco not asking for help, even though she did:
quote: apparently she didn't need to, like i said. as i pointed out before, chertoff didn't declare an incident of national significance until the 30th, even though the presidential declaration of disaster had already happened on the 27th, prior to the hurricane, totally eliminating the need for chertoff's memo. there appear to be some pretty nasty kinks in the chain of command here, and chertoff is one of them. |
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Peal Member (Idle past 4725 days) Posts: 64 Joined: |
Gene
are you saying that this is all that Blanco asked for in her letter to Bush. quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blanco asks for federal help 2 day before landfall"Pursuant to 44 CFR 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal." 404 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you not read the entire letter? quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUESTEstimated requirements for other Federal agency programs: ” Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation. ” Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation. ” Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations. ” Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall. ” Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall. ” Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall. Totals: $ 9,000,000 Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act: Coordination: $0Technical and advisory assistance: $0 Debris removal: $0 Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000 Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0 Distribution of emergency supplies: $0 Other (specify): $0 Totals: $ 9,000,000Grand Total: $ 9,000,000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's the total that Blanco is asking for. $9 million dollars.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Well, I don't see the point of arguing what the letter says when the letter is right here: 404
quote: Right, she is asking for "protective measures" and "direct Federal assistance". Next paragraph:
quote: Enclosure A:
quote: Now, to be fair, Katrina was a Category 3 hurricane when she wrote this, and the lanfall location was not known with any certainty.
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Peal Member (Idle past 4725 days) Posts: 64 Joined: |
Gene
"supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance," Does this part of the letter, "supplementary federal assistance", refer to FEMA in your opinion?
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Yes, about nine million dollar's worth, presumably in addition to the FEMA resources that were already on their way.
quote:
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Peal Member (Idle past 4725 days) Posts: 64 Joined: |
So was FEMA involved on the 27?
Grammer edit! This message has been edited by Peal, 09-15-2005 01:54 PM
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: The letter said that there was a "FEMA ERT-A team enroute". On the 27th, however, Katrina was a category 3 hurricane that would make landfall somewhere between Louisiana and Alabama, and New Orleans was dry. Are you suggesting that we should send the 82nd Airborne into New Orleans every time there's a hurricane in the Gulf? Have you paid attention to how many false alarms like that there are every year?
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Peal Member (Idle past 4725 days) Posts: 64 Joined: |
Wait Gene, don't draw your pistol yet.
On the 27th, however, Katrina was a category 3 hurricane that would make landfall somewhere between Louisiana and Alabama, and New Orleans was dry.Timeline of Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia This says it was going into New Orleans Saturday, August 27Katrina is upgraded to a Category 3 hurricane. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin calls for a voluntary evacuation of the city. The emergency plans rely on citizens to bring their own 3-day supply of food and water to the Superdome and Convention Center. Current Louisiana Emergency Evacuation guidelines allow use of public school buses [2]. It is currently disputed whether or not they were used to transport the poor to the superdome. [3] National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield and President Bush call on Mayor Nagin to declare a mandatory evacuation. [4] and [5] Governor Blanco requests that President Bush declare a major disaster for the State of Louisiana in a letter through FEMA Region VI Director [6] Gary Jones [7]. In the 4-page letter, she makes specific requests under the Stafford Act for aid (housing, counseling, unemployment, and Small business funding) as well as requesting "direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property" (by removing debris) and agrees to reduced liability but does not request federal troops to be deployed in the state until August 31.[8] Note, Blanco's letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on that same day -- see [9]. In response to Governor Blanco's request, President Bush declares a Federal state of emergency in Louisiana under the authority of the Stafford Act [10]. The emergency declaration provides for federal assistance and funding [11] and assigns to FEMA, by law, the responsibility for coordinating relief efforts [12]. The declaration [13] does not cover the parishes expected to receive the most damage, like Jefferson Parish and New Orleans (Orleans Parish). This was a bizarre "twist" since Governor Blanco specifically mentioned all the Southeast Louisiana Parishes by name in her in her request to President Bush. See[14]A map of the very peculiar Federal declaration of emergency parishes is provided by Bob Harris here: Page not found – { bobharris.com }
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: You can't forecast a hurricane with that kind of confidence 48 hours in advance. I know this from personal experience from trying to be in the paths of hurricanes. A corollary is that it's very difficult to anticipate the strength of a hurricane prior to landfall. National Hurricane Center Advisories > Wikipedia This is from the 1 PM Advisory on 27 Aug
quote: Forgive the caps and the awkward pauses, that's National Weather Service format. This message has been edited by gene90, 09-15-2005 02:18 PM
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Peal Member (Idle past 4725 days) Posts: 64 Joined: |
This says Kitrina could become a Category 4
She had to make a decision based on someones prediction. Hurricane KATRINA? AT 10 AM CDT...1500Z...A HURRICANE WATCH IS IN EFFECT FOR THESOUTHEASTERN COAST OF LOUISIANA EAST OF MORGAN CITY TO THE MOUTH OF THE PEARL RIVER...INCLUDING METROPOLITAN NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE PONCHARTRAIN. A HURRICANE WATCH MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WATCH AREA...GENERALLY WITHIN 36 HOURS. KATRINA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 7 MPH...11 KM/HR. A GRADUALTURN TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 115 MPH...185 KM/HR...WITH HIGHERGUSTS. KATRINA IS A CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON SCALE. SOME STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS... AND KATRINA COULD BECOME A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE.
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