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Author Topic:   Why must we believe *before* we die?
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 1 of 302 (244105)
09-16-2005 9:40 AM


Here's a question (for "Faith and Belief") that has been bothering me for some time:
Why does God want us to reach belief in him in the very short period of our existence when it is hardest for us to do so? I mean, our life on earth is infinitely short compared to the eternal afterlife. Why can't God accept people who only come to believe after they have died and then see that everything they've been told in church is true after all?
One would imagine that belief would be instantaneous once people actually find themselves in front of the gates of heaven (or of hell, as the case may be), so the delay should not be too annoying for a god who had already whiled away an eternity before creating us. And if, when staring Peter in the face, you would still not believe in God and heaven, then God would really have a reason to send you straight to hell. (In which case you'd perhaps do well to pretend not to believe in Satan either, since I'm told hell is a rather nasty joint. Who knows, you might even get sent back to earth.)
So why does God insist on people becoming believers during their lifetime? Does God prefer people who will believe things in spite of a total lack of evidence? (I'm beginning to suspect a hidden agenda here. Only the gullible are admitted to heaven, so there must be some catch to it. "Verily, I say unto you, don't go there!")
Or is the afterlife a myth after all, and is infecting people's minds, while they are still operative, the only way for religious memes to survive and thrive? That would be my answer of choice, but I'd like to see some religious opinions.
I may have sounded facetious in the description of my question, but it is meant as a serious question nonetheless. If religious people can't take a bit of humour, they need not bother to answer, I wouldn't want to be in the same heaven with them anyway.
This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 16-Sep-2005 02:55 PM

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by Larni, posted 09-16-2005 11:04 AM Parasomnium has not replied
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 Message 32 by iano, posted 09-28-2005 4:22 PM Parasomnium has not replied
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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 18 of 302 (244422)
09-17-2005 3:11 PM


Some remarks.
Thank you all for your replies. I am going to lump my reactions to (some of) you together in this one post. Please don't feel ignored if I didn't react to you. I am not intentionally ignoring anybody, it's just that I want this post to stay a bit focused.
jar writes:
She doesn't. It couldn't care less about whether or not you believe.
Jar, apparently your concept of God is different than that of most religious people. But I knew that already from previous posts of yours. As a religious person, you are a-typical, and I appreciate your opinion all the more for it.
[qs=Larni]if you were a priest greedy for converts to fill his coffers or provide man power, then it [convincing people that they must be believers before they die] make[s] perfect sense.[/qs]
That's supposing that the priest in question isn't as gullible as his flock. But what if he is? What makes him preach what he preaches? That's why I mentioned the 'meme' meme. To me, it's a compelling solution to the problem of why religious ideas - which I tend to think of as 'problematic' ideas, in that they can cause a lot of problems, making it not at all obvious that they should be successful - are so enduring. Like a gene wants to be copied just for the sake of it, so does a meme.
Chiroptera writes:
Hey! High stakes testing! We're down with that here in the U.S.
I don't know what you mean, can you explain?
Phatboy writes:
I have personally believed that many people do, in fact, become believers once the choice is clear to them
That would be obvious...
Phatboy writes:
...which for some, happens after the physical death.
... but that would not, to me at least. But it's your opinion, and that's what I asked for. Thanks.
robinrohan writes:
God reveals himself to good people only.
So if God doesn't reveal himself to me, I may draw the conclusion that I am not good?
purpledawn writes:
IMO there is a difference between being good and doing good. A bad person can do good things and vice versa.
But how do you become a bad person per se? I would have thought that your actions (doing good or bad) determine what kind of person you are. So, if a "bad" person does good things, then they are not wholly bad, I would say.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by purpledawn, posted 09-17-2005 7:39 PM Parasomnium has not replied
 Message 23 by robinrohan, posted 09-17-2005 8:11 PM Parasomnium has not replied
 Message 24 by mick, posted 09-17-2005 8:48 PM Parasomnium has not replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 37 of 302 (247239)
09-29-2005 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by robinrohan
09-29-2005 9:51 AM


Re: The blight man was born for
What a joy it is to see a bad metaphor being turned into a wet towel. Well done!

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by robinrohan, posted 09-29-2005 9:51 AM robinrohan has not replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 80 of 302 (247571)
09-30-2005 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
09-30-2005 6:58 AM


Re: Dissolving in Ocean vs Living in Heaven
Faith writes:
It was a comment on how anyone can desire to lose one's identity as a drop in the ocean
Don't you ever get tired of yourself?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that as a deprecating remark about your personality, but as a possible example of the motivation you asked about.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 09-30-2005 6:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 09-30-2005 7:24 AM Parasomnium has not replied
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