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Author Topic:   Why must we believe *before* we die?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 14 of 302 (244317)
09-17-2005 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
09-16-2005 9:58 PM


Scripture Says
quote:
Scripture says "no one is good, no not one."
Not quite what scripture says.
Ps 14:1
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
Ps 14:3
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
Ps 53:1
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God," They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice; There is no one who does good.
Ps 53:3
Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
This song of David seems to refer to fools or adversaries of the Jews, not necessarily everyone and says no one DOES good, not that no one IS good.
Now Paul states that no one is righteous, which deals with following divine laws.
Romans
3:10
as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one;
3:11
There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God;
3:12
All have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one."
It is also written:
Pr 12:2
A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn.
ABE: Romans
This message has been edited by purpledawn, 09-17-2005 09:53 AM

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 09-16-2005 9:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 09-17-2005 9:40 AM purpledawn has replied
 Message 25 by mick, posted 09-17-2005 8:54 PM purpledawn has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 16 of 302 (244347)
09-17-2005 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
09-17-2005 9:40 AM


Re: Scripture Says
IMO there is a difference between being good and doing good. A bad person can do good things and vice versa.
quote:
Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, Why do you call me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
I know you realize that I can come up with scripture that seems to support that there are good people
Matthew
12:35
"The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
and you can provide scripture that seems to say otherwise.
Since there are scriptures where God or Jesus describe men as good, then the quote you shared from Matthew 19:17 IMO is more likely an example of Jesus being humble as opposed to an absolute statement that no human is good.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 09-17-2005 9:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-17-2005 11:20 AM purpledawn has replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 19 of 302 (244432)
09-17-2005 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-17-2005 11:20 AM


Re: Scripture Says
When you read the complete songs referenced in Message 14
14:1-7
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
Do all the workers of wickedness not know, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call upon the Lord?
There they are in great dread, For God is with the righteous generation.
You would put to shame the counsel of the afflicted, But the LORD is his refuge.
Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When the LORD restores His captive people, Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be glad.
and how "sons of men" has been used before in the Bible, IMO David is using the term for those who don't serve God and his wicked enemies, not all of mankind.
This is what I was trying to say in Message 14 besides the "does good" refers to their actions and not their nature.
Your flat statement that no one is good is inaccurate and implies that no human is able to have a good nature. IMO the overall teachings in the Bible do not support this thought.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-17-2005 11:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 09-17-2005 7:13 PM purpledawn has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 22 of 302 (244453)
09-17-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Parasomnium
09-17-2005 3:11 PM


Re: Some remarks.
quote:
But how do you become a bad person per se?
In relation to what I was discussing it depends on who is judging you. (secular, Christian, Jewish, etc.) From the OT standpoint, not following the God of Abraham and/or his rules.
Ezekiel states:
18:21
"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
18:24
"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
quote:
I would have thought that your actions (doing good or bad) determine what kind of person you are. So, if a "bad" person does good things, then they are not wholly bad, I would say.
I don't think the Jews thought of people as wholly bad or good. We have a good urge and an evil urge. The trick is to balance them.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Parasomnium, posted 09-17-2005 3:11 PM Parasomnium has not replied

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