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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design and Bible Codes
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 1 of 49 (244434)
09-17-2005 5:46 PM


You all know me, but I want to put my biases up front just in case it's a new reader.
I don't believe in Intelligent Design. I am an abiogenesis ToEr supporter. I don't believe that there is a supernatural being holding court over the universe.
Having said that, I recently saw a special on the "Bible Codes".
For those who don't know what this is, the Bible Codes are a collection of hidden messages found within the ancient Hebrew texts. Basically they take all the words/letters of the text and make giant grids out of them. Then, in sort of a word search fashion look for predictions.
Apparently Lincoln's assassination, Rabin's assassination, etc. have been found.
I'm wondering if Intelligent Design supporters believe in the Bible Code.
Here's why I ask:
The Bible Code takes a collection of "random information", looks for patterns within it, then proclaims what it finds to be proof that the information was not random to begin with.
This strikes me as being very much what the IDers are doing. They look at complex things which exist today (at the end of the process) and deduce that therefore someone must have set out to achieve them.
It's backwards reasoning. Neither of these theories describe mechanics, they simply imply them by looking at results.
In striking opposite sits ToE which describes mechanics and implies results. (There is an elephant therefore there is an Intelligent Designer vs. There is Natural Selection and, hey whatya know, an Elephant)
In the Bible Code, no attention is paid to the 99.99 percent of letter/word combinations that don't result in any sort of meaningful sentence, let alone prediction.
Further, the same process of gridding out a text and doing a word search on "Moby Dick" turns up hundreds of predictions as well.
If the Bible Codes are holy, then doesn't that imply that the Moby Dick codes are likewise holy?
Patterns appear when you look for them. We, as a species, are good at finding patterns and discarding background noise.
Do IDers feel that Bible Code is a mathmatical trick, or proof that their is a God pre-ordaining our entire existance?
If you don't believe in Bible Code, which uses the same top down principles of results proves means that ID uses, then how do you reconcile that?
This message has been edited by Nuggin, 09-17-2005 07:05 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminBen, posted 09-17-2005 6:37 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 9 by ramoss, posted 10-09-2005 2:20 PM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 10-09-2005 8:50 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 15 by arachnophilia, posted 10-10-2005 5:14 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 25 by Christian7, posted 10-30-2005 9:46 AM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 27 by captainbucky, posted 12-24-2005 4:53 PM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 29 by ReverendDG, posted 12-26-2005 12:43 AM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 30 by inkorrekt, posted 02-05-2006 7:50 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 3 of 49 (244442)
09-17-2005 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminBen
09-17-2005 6:37 PM


Re: A question
Right-o! Check for an edit in a bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminBen, posted 09-17-2005 6:37 PM AdminBen has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 14 of 49 (250473)
10-10-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
10-09-2005 8:50 PM


Confused by this personal attack
Well Prophex I have to say I'm confused by this very personal and complete out of left field attack on me as a poster.
I don't like your style very much, you try to set someone up with your opening posts, and when someone (usually new here, or new in general to debate) says something in accordance to what you ask, you pounce on them.
How am I "setting someone up" here? I went out of my way to put my views in the first few sentences. Something that I haven't seen on any other threads.
Further, in what way am I "pouncing" on them. I am asking a question. If you choose to answer it, answer it. I don't have any special argument up my sleeve. In fact, I spell out my entire argument in my OP.
You have also pretended to believe that the earth was flat, that wasn't as funny as you may have thought it to have been, especially as it was an insult to some Christians on the forum.
How would my beliefs in a flat earth be insulting to Christians? Care to explain that one to me?
I don't see how you learn with this process, why do you do it? To increase your "reputation" as a good poster?
Is there some poster reputation ratings guide that I'm unaware of? I understood it to be pretty much take it as you see it. Are we voting on most popular poster or something?
it seems like your a little out of control in the fashion of your OP's. Maybe it's just me.
Care to give me an example of how my OP here was "out of control"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 10-09-2005 8:50 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 17 of 49 (250622)
10-11-2005 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by arachnophilia
10-10-2005 5:14 PM


Re: brendan mckay
Well, of course it's BS, but the question remains:
Since this follows the same basic logic of ID, do IDers support something as profoundly silly as Bible Codes (or Moby Dick Codes)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by arachnophilia, posted 10-10-2005 5:14 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 10-11-2005 4:18 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 32 of 49 (284266)
02-05-2006 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by inkorrekt
02-05-2006 7:50 PM


Re: Bible Code
The problem with this evidence is that it's being presented without any sort of context.
If we went to Vegas and wrote down the numbers generated by a roulette table for 10 hours then made a grid out of them, we could easily find the dates of presidental assassinations, the signing of the magna carta, etc.
Does this mean that those events were part of a predetermined pattern which also governs that particular roulette wheel?
No. It means that given a suffeciently large set of random numbers (or in the case of Bible codes sylables) you can form unintentional associations.
The proof of this is eligently displayed in the Moby Dick Codes demonstration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by inkorrekt, posted 02-05-2006 7:50 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
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