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Author Topic:   where was the transition within fossil record?? [Stalled: randman]
gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 9 of 304 (245167)
09-20-2005 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Eledhan
09-20-2005 12:45 PM


quote:
NO FOSSILS COUNT AS EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION...PERIOD.
Sure they can, in that they can confirm predictions. For example, you shouldn't find jawed fish before about the Devonian. You should find fossils with intermediate traits between fish and amphibians. You don't know if it's the "exact lineal ancestor" of amphibians because there is no guarantee that that animal is preserved in the fossil record, it might have been very rare for example.
quote:
if we don't see these transitions now, even to a very small degree, then why should we expect there to have beeen transitions in the past?
You should qualify "even to a very small degree" before we can respond to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Eledhan, posted 09-20-2005 12:45 PM Eledhan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Eledhan, posted 09-20-2005 12:54 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 11 of 304 (245170)
09-20-2005 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Eledhan
09-20-2005 12:54 PM


quote:
A very small degree - (n.) The extent to which an organism begins to look like something other than itself
That could start when you compare a white rabbit to a brown rabbit.
quote:
or when it looks different enough from its original state to call it another organism.
Do you mean, different species? Phylum? Family?
I'm not trying to be obtuse, I'm just not sure how much change you expect us to reasonably observe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Eledhan, posted 09-20-2005 12:54 PM Eledhan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Eledhan, posted 09-20-2005 1:03 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 13 of 304 (245177)
09-20-2005 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Eledhan
09-20-2005 1:03 PM


quote:
So, maybe that will be enough for you to realize what type of change I am talking about.
Yes, it is much clearer now, thank you.
quote:
Alright here ya go: I want to know if it has EVER been observed or recorded that a certain organism has EVER changed to something of a completely different kind. Such as a dog becoming a cat, or vice versa, or a transition between the two. A dog becoming a wolf is not the change that I am talking about. That is still the same kind of animal.
Should we expect, based on the evo paradigm, that we should have documented this in the 5000 or so years of recorded history?
This message has been edited by gene90, 09-20-2005 01:06 PM

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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 16 of 304 (245184)
09-20-2005 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by DrJones*
09-20-2005 1:13 PM


quote:
It wasn't Archaeopteryx, which has been know for quite a long time. It was the purported Archeoraptor that was a fake.
Right. Had I noticed that I would have said something.
Archaeopteryx is a primitive bird from the Jurassic Solnhofen limestone of Germany, and it has been known for many years. There have been accusations of forgery from some, less mainstream circles, as Percy has mentioned, but none have been substantiated.

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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 27 of 304 (245198)
09-20-2005 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Eledhan
09-20-2005 1:30 PM


quote:
You are determining the age of the fossils based on the age of the layer they are found in.
The only problem I have with this is that you can't have a tree, standing up, fossilized through more than one layer! And yet this is seen in various different places in the world.
This is a geology-related question that I would answer but would be off-topic. It's already been covered you might check:
http://EvC Forum: Soracilla defends the Flood? (mostly a "Joggins Polystrate Fossils" discussion) -->EvC Forum: Soracilla defends the Flood? (mostly a "Joggins Polystrate Fossils" discussion)

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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 33 of 304 (245204)
09-20-2005 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Eledhan
09-20-2005 1:42 PM


quote:
And I am sick and tired of people using the changes of hair, eye, and skin color (along with others). Any geneticist knows that these are not additions to the gene code, but simply different genes playing more dominant roles.
How about this?
quote:
Tomorrow's flowers may produce blooms with a dazzling profusion of petals. That's thanks to research at the Plant Gene Expression Center, in Albany, California, where scientists have discovered the petal-producing prowess of a gene named”appropriately enough”Ultrapetala.
...Skipping down the article...
quote:
For these tests, Fletcher soaked A. thaliana seeds in ethyl methanesulfonate. That changed the makeup of the Ultrapetala gene. Then she grew several generations of plants from these seeds. This technique, widely used in modern molecular biology, can yield plants with significant internal and external differences. These differences can help scientists pinpoint the roles that a gene plays in its natural, unaltered state.
USDA ARS Online Magazine Vol. 51, No. 5

This message is a reply to:
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