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Author Topic:   Department Of Homeland Security Inaction At the Top
gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 270 of 297 (244751)
09-18-2005 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by crashfrog
09-18-2005 11:46 PM


Re: Sheehan: End Occupation of New Orleans
quote:
She's shooting her mouth off and acting stupid. But you still haven't answered my question.
Because it isn't important.
The reason I mentioned Sheehan is to demonstrate that no matter what Bush does, somebody somewhere will come out of the woodwork to censure him.
I'm glad you agree Sheehan is a moonbat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by crashfrog, posted 09-18-2005 11:46 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2005 7:43 AM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 272 of 297 (244945)
09-19-2005 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by crashfrog
09-19-2005 7:43 AM


Re: Sheehan: End Occupation of New Orleans
quote:
But that doesn't refute legitimate criticism of his actions.
No, but again it does show the lengths people will go to make that criticism.
quote:
And perhaps the reason that he's so roundly censured is because his actions are usually so completely wrongheaded.
That would be the Bandwagon Fallacy.
quote:
And, predictably, I notice that, just like the rest of the right, you had no particular refutation against any of Sheehan's arguments
I don't have to, the claim that we are 'occupying' New Orleans is absurd on the face of it. That, by the way, is the only Sheehan charge that is relevant to this thread.
quote:
In response Republicans attacked her personally, exactly as you have done.
And you didn't make an ad hominem attack on her when you asked 'why the fuck should I care what she says'?
[Quoting Crashfrog]
quote:
She's shooting her mouth off and acting stupid.
Hey, if somehow you cannot criticize a grieving mom when she thrusts herself into the public spotlight to make a political point, I guess you need to work on your consistency, huh?
This message has been edited by gene90, 09-19-2005 02:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2005 7:43 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by gene90, posted 09-19-2005 2:59 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 273 of 297 (244957)
09-19-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by gene90
09-19-2005 2:30 PM


Re: Sheehan: End Occupation of New Orleans
Here we go, for those armchair FEMA types:
Today's 11 AM EDT forecast discussion for Tropical Storm Rita:
quote:
ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS ARE CONTINUING TO BECOME MORE CONDUCIVE FOR
STRENGTHENING...AND ALL FORECAST GUIDANCE SUGGESTS RITA SHOULD
INTENSIFY SOME MORE...BEFORE AND AFTER IT REACHES THE GULF OF
MEXICO. THE NEW OFFICIAL INTENSITY FORECAST IS ADJUSTED UPWARD AND
IS A BLEND BETWEEN THE SHIPS AND GFDL GUIDANCE THROUGH DAY 3...AND
SHOWS RITA REACHING CATEGORY TWO STATUS BEFORE REACHING THE GULF OF
MEXICO. THERE IS A SLIGHT POSSIBILITY IT COULD STRENGTHEN FASTER
THAN FORECAST. ALL INDICATIONS ARE THAT RITA WILL BECOME A MAJOR
HURRICANE OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO... WHERE A LARGE UPPER LEVEL
ANTICYCLONE IS FORECAST BY THE MODELS TO DOMINATE AND PROVIDE A
WEAK SHEAR ENVIRONMENT.
Who wants to start predicting the apocalypse? (Please also read message 255 for greater context on Gulf hurricanes).
Here is a link to the probabilistic wind chart (caution: experimental product).
Page Not Found
This message has been edited by gene90, 09-19-2005 03:02 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by gene90, posted 09-19-2005 2:30 PM gene90 has not replied

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 Message 275 by RAZD, posted 09-19-2005 10:03 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 277 of 297 (245164)
09-20-2005 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by RAZD
09-19-2005 10:23 PM


Re: Some more points ...
quote:
se my previous post. heh, the difference a little {time\planning} will make eh? We could also talk about the PLAN to rehabilitate NO.
We could, but I don't think we have to. Because last night on CNN Headline News I saw Nagin asserting the fact that he is Mayor Nagin and the head of the Federal relief effort (I still don't remember his name) is overstepping his authority.
Of course, now that there is a new tropical system in the Gulf Nagin sensibly says to get out.
I think FEMA/DHS should change the wording of their mission statement. The Congress may expect them to lead but it looks to me like they weren't empowered to, especially since the local gov't of New Orleans has primary responsibility for the city itself.
quote:
True, but you can have state or federal restrictions on minimum provisions in certain high-risk areas.
Okay. I hadn't heard about Federal but will take your word for it.
quote:
They should have been in manned evacuation centers before the storm hit in sufficient numbers to provide the medical, food, security and shelter requirements. Proper planning gives you the breakdown on people numbers and talents and when each goes where. Evaluation of the planning process tells you whether it is a {feasible\reasonable} plan.
"Before the storm hit" as in, on the 27th?
That would mean you would really need to start moving on the 25th or 26th wouldn't it?
I would point out that by the 28th they were in the evacuation centers in enough numbers to provide "food, shelter, security" requirements. The conditions did not deteriorate until later.
By the way, are you going to send this many personnel into New Orleans every time there's a 20% chance of it being hit by a category 3 hurricane? Without following the usual procedure of the governor asking for it? (Remember, the armed forces have proven to be an essential part of the equation.)
Are you going to create a proportional mobilization for the whole coast under hurricane warnings for a storm 48 hours away?
(I'm guessing 48 hours because we don't know what a reasonable mobilization time is).
quote:
If you've done your homework, and planned for the centers to be there for "the big one" knowing there will be many duds in between, and knowing that the actual full resources will only be used on "the big one"
The problem with that is that it takes precious time to move in "actual full resources" from somewhere else. That's really the point of the discussion. There's plenty of room for soul-searching and improvement over at FEMA these days, but sooner or later you have to realize that resources and mobility are finite, and that this disaster was an order of magnitude greater than what they have had to face in a long time. Or what you would reasonably have expected on the 27th.
You can't practicably send in the kind of resources you need to answer a disaster like this every time a major hurricane is in the Gulf days before landfall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by RAZD, posted 09-19-2005 10:23 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2005 9:56 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 278 of 297 (245302)
09-20-2005 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by RAZD
09-16-2005 8:46 PM


Re: Some more points ...
[Quoting RAZD]
quote:
There is a story in the news of an elderly woman who called on her phone Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday saying that the water was rising inside her house and she could not get out and to please send help. On Friday she drowned. They knew the location of the house. That is "later than necessary" with room to spare in my mind.
I am just going to point out that this story has been debunked.
Here is Broussard starting the rumor:
quote:
"The guy who runs this building I'm in, Emergency Management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home, and every day she called him and said, 'Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?' And he said, 'Yeah, Momma, somebody's coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday' ” and she drowned on Friday night. She drowned on Friday night. Nobody's coming to get us, nobody's coming to get us. The secretary has promised, everybody's promised. They've had press conferences ” I'm sick of the press conferences. For God's sake, shut up and send us somebody."
From WikiPedia:
quote:
Subsequent news reports identified the son in the story as Tom Rodrigue, Jefferson Parish's emergency services director. Rodrigue's 92-year-old mother, Eva, lived in the St. Rita's nursing home.[2] It appears from a CNN interview with Rodrigue that he made phonecalls to the nursing home on Saturday, August 27, 2005, and on Sunday, August 28, 2005, urging that the home be evacuated.[3] That evacuation did not take place, and at least 30 residents of the nursing home drowned on Monday, August 29, 2005.[4]
A September 19, 2005, MSNBC story quotes Rodrigue as saying, in response to being told about Broussaard's statements on Meet the Press, "No, no, that's not true." A Broussard spokesperson described Broussard's statements about Rodrigue's mother on Meet the Press as "a misunderstanding." [5]
Aaron Broussard - Wikipedia
I understand that Negligent Homicide charges are being filed on some owners of nursing homes who did not evacuate their residents. Further, the previous N.O. plan required them to have contracts with busing companies to be able to do so.
The problem with evacuating the elderly is that you commonly have some of them die in transport. So if you get an Ivan or a Lili that doesn't hit New Orleans, it's pointless.
I also thought I would add comments by Donna Brazile. You know, the person that ran Al Gore's 2000 campaign?
quote:
On Thursday night President Bush spoke to the nation from my city. I am not a Republican. I did not vote for George W. Bush -- in fact, I worked pretty hard against him in 2000 and 2004. But on Thursday night, after watching him speak from the heart, I could not have been prouder of the president and the plan he outlined to empower those who lost everything and to rebuild the Gulf Coast....The president has set a national goal and defined a national purpose. This is something I believe with all my heart: When we are united, nothing can stop us. We will not waver, we will not tire, and we will not stop until the streets are clean, every last brick has been replaced and every last family has its home back.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../16/AR2005091602167_pf.html
Posturing?
This message has been edited by gene90, 09-20-2005 06:37 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by RAZD, posted 09-16-2005 8:46 PM RAZD has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 280 of 297 (245584)
09-21-2005 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by RAZD
09-20-2005 9:56 PM


Re: Some more points ...
Meanwhile in Houston:
(c/o Michelle Malkin)
And I thought people were saying it couldn't be done?
This message has been edited by gene90, 09-21-2005 08:55 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2005 9:56 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by RAZD, posted 09-21-2005 9:04 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 282 of 297 (245596)
09-21-2005 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by RAZD
09-21-2005 9:04 PM


Re: Some more points ...
quote:
Are those busses evacuating people or are they just being moved out of harms way?
We'll have to wait and see.
Still, that 'harm's way' part didn't happen in NO.
I haven't replied to your previous post, I think I agree with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by RAZD, posted 09-21-2005 9:04 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by RAZD, posted 09-21-2005 9:22 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 284 of 297 (245608)
09-21-2005 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by RAZD
09-20-2005 9:56 PM


Re: Some more points ...
quote:
There is (or used to be) a place in the gulf of mexico where you can sail up to a pipe sticking out of the water that is gushing fresh water. It used to be a hotel on an outer island (with an artesian well ... all that's left is the pipe from the well).
I've heard of that, I think that was off of Biloxi(?)
Right, though, barrier islands are ephemeral. And some of them are mobile.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2005 9:56 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by RAZD, posted 09-21-2005 10:14 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 285 of 297 (245609)
09-21-2005 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by RAZD
09-21-2005 9:22 PM


Re: Some more points ...
quote:
I also think people learned (1) about hurricane damage and (2) how much to trust the {various levels of} government response
It'll last fifteen years, tops.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by RAZD, posted 09-21-2005 9:22 PM RAZD has not replied

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