Racism - A Sanity Check

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So, why don't we allow monopolies?

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Because we aren't in a perfectly laisez-faire system.Why do you ask? Has Wal-Mart been ruled one?This message has been edited by gene90, 09-22-2005 08:09 PM

Wal-Mart is also the symptom of the current state of American capitalism, which is the "illusion of choice". It is also a symptom of corporate disregard of people and entire communities.If the largest employer of people in the community is WalMart because they drove all of the family businesses out of town, and none of the people who work at walmart can afford to shop anywhere but at WalMart (and many of them also need food stamps), then people's choices become limited to the cheap crap that WalMart stocks. That is not only because that's all they can now afford, but it's also because that's all there is in town.The problem with WalMart being a large corporate interest is that the majority of the money coming in is not staying in the community. It's going to the corporate headquarters and also to the international stockholders. Family businesses are the backbone of a community, have roots there, care about the people who work for them as people, because those are their friends and neighbors.A corporation has no such ties to the community nor the people. They care only about the money.

Why aren't we in a perfectly laisez-faire system?

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Wal-Mart is also the symptom of the current state of American capitalism, which is the "illusion of choice". It is also a symptom of corporate disregard of people and entire communities.

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Again, why do people shop there?Why aren't people willing to vote with their feet and shop local grocers?I can understand not liking Wal-Mart. But what needs to be clear is that people have chosen to shop there.

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If the largest employer of people in the community is WalMart because they drove all of the family businesses out of town, and none of the people who work at walmart can afford to shop anywhere but at WalMart (and many of them also need food stamps)

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Why? Is it the only grocer and general retailer in existance?That's what you need to prove a monopoly.

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Family businesses are the backbone of a community, have roots there, care about the people who work for them as people, because those are their friends and neighbors.

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I actually agree with that.But why aren't the family businesses able to compete? Wal-Mart didn't cast some kind of magical spell and make them vanish. There's a reason the people choose the box stores.

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Why aren't we in a perfectly laisez-faire system?

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Because that isn't how the Republic is set up, even as far back as the writing of the Constitution (you notice that the Congress has the power to regulate commerce).I suppose this is because pure laisez-faire systems require some regulation to remain stable. I don't have a problem with this because I'm not a Libertarian.This message has been edited by gene90, 09-22-2005 08:25 PM

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Why aren't people willing to vote with their feet and shop local grocers?

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Because people have been repeatedly sold the lie that cheaper is always better.At a certain point, when they realize their mistake, it's too late.

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But why aren't the family businesses able to compete?

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Probaly because of middle class wage stagnation, and the fact that the minimum wage hasn't provided a living wage for quite a long time.Also the trade benefit we give to those Godless Communist Chinese insead of supporting our own domestic industrial production has further eroded the middle class.

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Because people have been repeatedly sold the lie that cheaper is always better.

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That may be so...but the fact is that they made a choice. You can't change how you voted in an election 20 years ago because the candidate turned out to be toad.

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At a certain point, when they realize their mistake, it's too late.

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Never too late. If there's a market of wal-mart haters that are willing to pay more for goods from the local folks, the local folks will start a business.That's how it works. Now unfortunately not everything is fair like it should be: corporate subsidies and welfare for example. But enough local startups could put a giant corporation in its place--IF--and only IF--there is customer demand for them.I don't see it. But that could be why I'm not in business school.

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Probaly because of middle class wage stagnation, and the fact that the minimum wage hasn't provided a living wage for quite a long time.

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I figured it was just because nobody wants to pay more for what they can get in a box store. That's what you meant when you refered to a "lie": that "cheaper is better", right?

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Also the trade benefit we give to those Godless Communist Chinese insead of supporting our own domestic industrial production has further eroded the middle class.

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Ask yourself why companies would rather go to China than stick around in the US. And then we'll see what we can do here--what we can, that is, without making ourselves China.I think there are a few benefits there, though. For one thing, like Larry Handlin once told me, it's incentive for China to behave--they are economically dependant on us. Another thing is that it provides China and other poorer nations with some wealth--as opposed to none. Unfortunately Beijing tries to keep this in check by keeping the Yuan artificially depressed.This is getting too off-topic, but any civilized discussion is an improvement in my opinion, and the comments I am replying to look like a good-faith effort to me.This message has been edited by gene90, 09-22-2005 10:42 PM

ah well. that's life.of course i'm sure many people would do that to me as well. me included

This can be classed more as urban foklore than sound economic analysis.First, the types of products produced now in China (non-durable consumer goods) were largely produced 20 years ago in the then-low cost producers such as Taiwan, Korea, and Mexico, not the US. Second, the shift of consumer goods prodcution to lower cost countries is affecting Japan and Germany as well as the US, as these countries are moving to services with manufacturing confined to automated production of capital goods, and offshoring consumer goods, just like the US, for similar macroeconomic reasons. Third, trade and current account balances are affected by a host of complex macroeconomic factors and are not chiefly due to imbalances in industrial competitiveness.

Is this the same "public" that wants to drive H2s and have low gas prices? Is this the same "public" that wants to eat McDs and have free angioplasty?Simply because the public is behind something doesn't mean that it is right, workable, reasonable or fair.Your solution to monopolies and trusts is that the workers simply go into business for themselves and out compete the mega-businesses. That's a great idea. And, if it wasn't for the mega-business not having to pay taxes, having complete control of shipping and product production, ability to crush competition in any given area by relying on profits from another area, that'd be a fair fight.But since we live in this world, that's not going to happen

I am a moderator, and I just got home from work. (At the local Safeway) This topic has gotten a bit twisted...Lets cool off a day or two. Temporary shutdown.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-23-2005 01:13 AM