Random God Rant

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Mutation=flaws=spiritual death.

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Mutation + selection by the environment=continued existence of the organism OR extinction.Since when does genetic mutation sanve anything at all to do with the supernatural or magic?

It appears you do not understand either term. What anything "claims" to be is in and of itself, irrelevant. Many books claim to be "God's own communication".The Babylonian myths are known to predate the Biblical version. Therefore the former cannot be an imperfectly propagated version of the latter. Your conclusion is a non sequitur. If these are not intended as precise, technical terms, this vitiates taking the whole cosmology as precise and technical. QED.We're approaching the post limit in the thread, so I'll not belabor the point.

We know exactly what these things mean. They belived the sky had windows, and that's where rain came from. They write about it, depict it on their temples, etc.It wasn't the case of taking something litteraly that wasn't intended to be, it WAS litteral. This is exactly how they belived the world worked.It is only know, when their view is so wholey inadequate, that people are trying to claim it's a metaphore. Do you think they were so dumb back then that they didn't know what a metaphore was? Verse time:

schrafinator = also kidding

Right. Assuming he existed, but before him there were no hebrews. ok... See, that's not quite right. Becaus archeology has shows that the Jews and the Cananites were actually one and the same. There is no record of some sort of great conquest, let alone an exodus from egypt. There is actually great evidence to the contrary.In other words, you, nor the bible, has any legs to stand on when it comes to this claim. 1) There is no evidence for a great flood. Logic prevents the possibility of such an event as well. But that's another thread.2) If the jews came out of the same culture, why don't we also worship Ishtar? Ah! Cool. So you belive in the inerrancy of a 3000year old book that talks about a flat earth with a talking snake and a magic apple. Thank goodness you have a source with such credibility! OMFG!WTF!You are not SERIUSLY suggesting that the world magicaly went from the babylonian cosmos to the modern one after the flood?

Just because you were lied to by people does not mean that God is a lie. You feel better about believing in rational quantative things that you feel some control over...or ability to learn about.I mean...you won't learn any more about God by listening to me...much less any thick headed fundy that wanders in here. If you so conclude Him to be a lie, that is your choice...a bit premature, I'd wager.Wait until the U.S. is broke and millions of us taste a hint of poverty that we never thought would happen. You will be disgusted by all of the wacko church folk comin out of the woodwork, but you may find that human wisdom won't save us. Keep a tiny door in your mind open for the Hope that is God as I know Him...or as He finds you. He won't enter a closed door!(Im beginning to sound like Mike The Wiz...preachin to ole Schraffy baby, here! )

Abraham's forefathers either WERE the Babylonians or at the very least lived AMONG the Babylonians, essentially part of them, all having descended from Noah anyway not that far in the past. So your calling them "OTHER people" is wrong. They were all the SAME CULTURE. Abraham CAME FROM Ur of the Chaldees. He WAS a Chaldean culturally. Again, you can't COPY your own forefathers' culture. You OWN it.This message has been edited by Faith, 09-23-2005 10:14 AM

Who is "they?" In what literature do they write about it? This illustration was not on the Hebrew temple, so are you talking about Babylonian temples? Again, who is "they?" You can't attribute to the Bible what various people illustrated unless you know it IS in the Bible in that literal form.Thanks for the reference to "pillars" in the Bible. I had looked it up and didn't find it. Also I did believe that the waters above the firmament had ended with the Flood so that being in the psalms gives a different view. In this case it has to refer to rain coming from the sky from METAPHORICAL windows.It doesn't matter what they thought about how the world was designed. God can give people a figure of speech to describe it and the people take it literally because they don't know any better. However, I believe ALL those references are metaphors and it is not farfetched to think that for the most part they KNEW they were metaphors, and the occasional literal schematic illustration does not change that.

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Just because you were lied to by people does not mean that God is a lie.

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That's true.Of course, from my perspective it is likely that the person telling you the most lies is you.

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You feel better about believing in rational quantative things that you feel some control over...or ability to learn about.

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Actually, while I do enjoy learning about the facts of the natural world, I fully accept that there is much that I don't understand, and never will. There are an infinite number of questions about an infinite number of subjects that will never even occur to me to ask or wonder about.It seems to me that people who have "settled" on a belief do just that. Settle.

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I mean...you won't learn any more about God by listening to me...much less any thick headed fundy that wanders in here. If you so conclude Him to be a lie, that is your choice...a bit premature, I'd wager.

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But isn't it just as premature for you to conclude God to be real?

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Wait until the U.S. is broke and millions of us taste a hint of poverty that we never thought would happen. You will be disgusted by all of the wacko church folk comin out of the woodwork, but you may find that human wisdom won't save us. Keep a tiny door in your mind open for the Hope that is God as I know Him...or as He finds you. He won't enter a closed door!

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I'm an agnostic, phat.

You delight in this particular misrepresentation don't you? A talking ass also, you know. There is no flat earth in the Bible, however, and the apple was an ordinary fruit.

.... hmmmm...Ok Faith. If I can show you definiative proof that this is what the hebrews belived to be litteraly true, will you conceed that the bible is wrong?

If I can prove to you that the ancient hebrews thought the earth was flat, would you conceed that the bible is wrong on this point?

Of course not. It is God's word. It is not a science text and what it says about physical reality is not intended as science. As I already said, if the people got a literal view from it that's not God's fault. They aren't required to have accurate knowledge of geology. There is nothing in the Bible itself that requires a literal interpretation of "pillars" etc.This message has been edited by Faith, 09-23-2005 10:35 AM

What "the Hebrews" thought about how the earth was made is NOT relevant (though where are you getting this information about what they thought independent of the Bible anyway?). The Bible itself does not show a flat earth. It doesn't say enough about the structure of things to draw any conclusion, but in Isaiah the earth is described as a "circle" which doesn't suggest flat.

Allright... then why do you belive the flood and the garden of Eden?Why do you take those stories litteraly?How do you tell the difference bettween that that is ment to be taken litteraly and that which is to be symbolic.?Start with adam and eve. Why aren't they just symbols?This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-23-2005 10:39 AM