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Author | Topic: What does life do outside of science? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
And Pascal's Wager assumes that, as an incorrect theist, you (and the World) will lose little or nothing. However, this is not necessarily the case; I know that if I had lived my relatively short life thus far as even a liberal Christian, I would at the very least have:
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Holmes writes: I think that the Holy Spirit is convincing me against this one. (For you nonbelievers, that would be my conscience.) I agree with you, Holmes in that it would be ridiculous to present the evidence to intelligent people in the form of hypocritical Chritians and hypothetical "scientists" who say that there was a literal Flood. How do you know this?(That God will destroy nonbelievers) And if this is true, doesn't this suggest a rather ridiculous God? First of all it will prove nothing to those that are destroyed, and those observing the destruction already believe anyway so what's the point? Our topic is "What does life do outside of science"? Well, we laugh, we play, we muse at sunsets together and we join together helping people out of floods, hurricanes, and misery in general. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-27-2005 06:29 AM
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b b Member (Idle past 6158 days) Posts: 77 From: baton rouge, La, usa Joined: |
holmes writes: If God is detectable, then why don't you be the scientist to show this to be true? I previously writes:
pray if you want to detect him.
prayer is the only way at this point. Don't you mean "they"? There is evidence over the years to support pretty much all systems of religious conviction, especially if one does not press too hard for literal interpretations.
I mean EXACTLY what I said. There is only ONE truth. I'm not speaking of religion; I'm speaking of what actually is. Some religions (not all) may be different interpretaions, translations, or explanations of the same truth. Also, I do believe the bible is literal. If it said a "dog flew," I wouldn't take it as a metaphor.
How do you know this? And if this is true, doesn't this suggest a rather ridiculous God? First of all it will prove nothing to those that are destroyed, and those observing the destruction already believe anyway so what's the point?
The point is that he's coming back to get/reward all those on his side (not religion specific}. Either you are with him or against; him no innocent bystanders. He's not coming to PROVE anything. Who's opinion does he want/need? Interfere with his will-You are destroyed.
To be honest, honesty in one's own ignorance is the best bet... if one bases faith on gambling propositions.
My faith is based on the bible and common sense (reasoning) at the same time. I only said
If creation is wrong and I die then nothing happens-I lived a good life for nothing. If scientists are wrong about God and die then they are eternal candles-Less to lose with creation even if it is wrong huh? That's the obvious choice for me hands down.
in an attempt to sway your foolish ideas before it's too late. But really it matters to God what you beleive; not me. I just enjoy an intense debate about ideas. I don't feel anyone has to believe God, but I'm one of the ones who will be hanging out with him in the end. Hope to see ya'll there. REBEL WITH A CAUSE.
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b b Member (Idle past 6158 days) Posts: 77 From: baton rouge, La, usa Joined: |
Unless you've got it backwards, and God wants people to be atheists. Seems pretty likely to me, actually. And you don't really know, do you?
Father forgive him for he know not what he is talking about. Please do not destroy the ignorant. There; I pray for you. God does not expect everyone to believe in him (hell has a lot of room),but he does want everyone to believe. It's not like he slipped up, someone saw him, and told everyone about him. If he didn't want anyone to know about him, we wouldn't.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
The point is that he's coming back to get/reward all those on his side (not religion specific}. Either you are with him or against; him no innocent bystanders. He's not coming to PROVE anything. Who's opinion does he want/need? Interfere with his will-You are destroyed. Come on, take a step back and re-read this. It just sounds very very silly and childish. I'm not saying you are being childish, but that this kind of statement is childish. If God is all present, all powerful and all knowing, why does he need to come back and reward some people and punish others. If God is all love, why wouldn't he forgive those who didn't believe in him. Why wouldn't he punish those who do believe for failing to convert those that didn't? These "my way or the highway" type statements don't sound like the word of God. They sound like the word of men in positions of power who want to exert that power and influence over others. This is why organized religion has such a bad reputation. Clearly, whoevers been feeding you this stuff is doing so because they want influence over you, they want you to a) give them money or b) do what they tell you to do. God would not need to use threats to get his point across
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
pray if you want to detect him. Who said I hadn't? No detection from this unit.
There is only ONE truth. I'm not speaking of religion; I'm speaking of what actually is. Stop proselytizing for a second and remember what we were discussing, which was evidence. All religions have support found for them within the world. That is actually true. You can call all the others mistaken, and they... unlike the creators of your precious mythology... built their religion from what was seen around them, so as to answer that issue. It would be hypocritical, but at least its an answer.
Also, I do believe the bible is literal. If it said a "dog flew," I wouldn't take it as a metaphor. Suddenly I want to get into book publishing, well one book publishing.
The point is that he's coming back to get/reward all those on his side (not religion specific}. Either you are with him or against; him no innocent bystanders. He's not coming to PROVE anything. Who's opinion does he want/need? Interfere with his will-You are destroyed. Hey, my first question was how you knew this. But let me address this ramble. It is inconsistent with your first post. You said there would be proof as he killed people. So I asked you about that. Here you suggest that he's not proving anything, but simply rewarding his followers apparently by killing nonbelievers. Or maybe that's just punishment. And yet again you set up a disturbing image of a moron for your God. If he makes everyone, doesn't he already know our opinions? More importantly though, what should he care what they are? According to you opinions can stop the will of God? How can opinions stop the will of something that is omnipotent? Sticks and stone may break my bones, but names will never hurt me... unless I'm God?
I only said... {pascal's wager}... in an attempt to sway your foolish ideas before it's too late. But really it matters to God what you beleive; not me. If God does care then telling me to switch for gambling reasons will simply waste my life as well as getting me toasted in the end. Thus attempting to sway me, if you believe he does care, means you are looking to hurt me instead of help me. So were you just being cruel or an idiot with poor logic skills?
but I'm one of the ones who will be hanging out with him in the end. Sounds like a terrible time. If you have one difference of opinion you get fried, and you have to live like that for eternity. That's be pretty tough for a person that proclaims...
I just enjoy an intense debate about ideas. Well I guess it will be intense. According to you I'll be cooked in the first seconds. That doesn't leave much debate however. This message has been edited by holmes, 09-28-2005 04:06 AM holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Phat Member Posts: 18339 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
BB, I think that you are approaching this argument from an illogical stance. God never made Hell for people, you know. He only got mad at religious zealots...never the unchurched. Am I making sense to you so far? Besides, how this message got in this quest for science is a mystery to me....perhaps you know the answer?
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b b Member (Idle past 6158 days) Posts: 77 From: baton rouge, La, usa Joined: |
Hey, my first question was how you knew this Is this a serious question? I think everyone here, whether they agree or not, knows how I know this.
Stop proselytizing for a second and remember what we were discussing, which was evidence. All religions have support found for them within the world. That is actually true.
would you please remove all ideas of what you think I beleive from your mind. Now re-read what I wrote. I'm saying I beleive many religions may (possibility) worship the same "God," but maybe with a different name.
You can call all the others mistaken, and they... unlike the creators of your precious mythology... built their religion from what was seen around them, so as to answer that issue. It would be hypocritical, but at least its an answer.
It is inconsistent with your first post. You said there would be proof as he killed people. So I asked you about that.
There will be proof once he's destroyed his enemies, but he will not destroy his enemy's to prove anything. It will be judgement (or punishment). How can you truly understand the complex laws of science when you can hardly understand my simple ideas. Do you jump to conclusions when reading a science book also; or do you just do it to desparetly try to discredit a working theory?
Thus attempting to sway me, if you believe he does care, means you are looking to hurt me instead of help me. So were you just being cruel or an idiot with poor logic skills?
In my faith, part of everyone's purpose is to win souls to the kingdom. sounds like "the chronicles of riddick, I know, but it is what it is.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Is this a serious question? I think everyone here, whether they agree or not, knows how I know this. My question is serious. How do you know this?
I'm saying I beleive many religions may (possibility) worship the same "God," but maybe with a different name. I understand that that is what you were suggesting, but that will only pertain to some, as even your wording above suggests. What about the rest?
There will be proof once he's destroyed his enemies, but he will not destroy his enemy's to prove anything. Once again, I am at a loss as to how this achieves anything. Humans can destroy their enemies, all of them in some cases, and that effects nothing as a suggestion that they are creators nor gods. And to get into the metaphysical, satan could appear and destroy his enemies... how would that prove he was a creator or a God?
How can you truly understand the complex laws of science when you can hardly understand my simple ideas. Okay I see how there was a difference between what you meant and what I took from it, but honestly the way you wrote about "proof" in your first reply suggested it was proof to the nonbelievers and believers alike. It suggested that was at least in part a goal. In any case, the laws of science are generally pretty simple, though there are some complex models (especially mathematical ones). It is easy to understand them, than your so called "simple" ideas in that they are generally not conflicting with each other, and in the end can be described in a way that I can test them if I wish. You mentioned one test, and I told you it failed. Science has an answer for that. Do you?
try to discredit a working theory? Though not desperate, I am a skeptic, and follow the scientific method. That involves careful reserve of judgement and some level of attempt at falsification. I am uncertain which theory you had that was working?
In my faith, part of everyone's purpose is to win souls to the kingdom. sounds like "the chronicles of riddick, I know, but it is what it is. If by "sounds like Chronicles of Riddick" you mean it sounds like a piece of fiction and in specific a lame first installment of a much larger piece that I hope will improve as it goes on, then you would be correct. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Father forgive him for he know not what he is talking about. Please do not destroy the ignorant. There; I pray for you. Thnaks, but better you should pray for yourself. After all, you're the one who's facing an enternity of hellfire for disobeying God's single, obvious commandment - "Thou shallt not believe in God."
If he didn't want anyone to know about him, we wouldn't. We don't. All we have is the fairy tales people make up about him. I don't really consider any of that "knowledge."
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b b Member (Idle past 6158 days) Posts: 77 From: baton rouge, La, usa Joined: |
disobeying God's single, obvious commandment - "Thou shallt not believe in God. Would you explain this idea to me? I'm curious because this is like the 3rd or 4th time you said that.
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So how often do you drink deadly poison with no ill-effects?? When was the last time you touched someone with your hands and cured them of a disease?
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b b Member (Idle past 6158 days) Posts: 77 From: baton rouge, La, usa Joined: |
I wouldn't do that. There are tribes that do a lot of things of that nature such as firewalking and probably drinking various potions. I beleive if it is God's will(being that I do believe he is the creator and that his will controls everything)for one to survive the poison one will. I don't know his will so I would not chance it. My bible also tells me not to tempt God. I take that literal too. Tempt - as in purposely drinking poison
I don't know if this is the intended meaning or just an interpretation of what is, but I would not chance it being that I don't fully understand this. My ignorance here is why I would not try it; not that it does not mean what it says.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I don't know his will You did an amazing imitation of that earlier in the thread.
My bible also tells me not to tempt God. It also says not to take God's name in vain (which does not mean swearing). It also says not to judge others. And it also suggests that one should not go about talking like you know what's in the afterlife. You seem to pick and choose what to follow. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Would you explain this idea to me? I'm curious because this is like the 3rd or 4th time you said that. Isn't it obvious that, if God exists, God doesn't want us to believe it exists? That would explain the lack of intervention, the failure to provide any type of guidance or message, and the irrefutable appearance in the universe of things not being designed. It would explain the fact that, no matter what we study, we can explain it without recourse to the intervention of God. The very nature of the universe proclaims one obvious truth - either God doesn't exist, or it's absolutely determined to convince us that it doesn't. So shouldn't you take it at it's word? I mean, if God exists, none of us really know what he wants. I have just as much basis for asserting that God wants us to be atheists as you have for asserting any particular dogma of the Christian faith, or of any faith. That's why "Pascal's Wager" is so worthless - it assumes that you can successfully reduce the problem to two alternatives. What I'm trying to show you is that there's no way to do that; there's an infinite number of alternatives, and they're all equally supported by the evidence. And there's one conceviable alternative that turns your logic on its head, and sends the atheist to heaven and the believer to hell.
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