Why must we believe *before* we die?

god selects those who are useful to him in that manner to be his while on earth. he uses everyone else, just in different ways. we respond to his call because we cannot deny it. none can break from the compelling nature of him. you don't respond because of something good about you, you respond because he tells you to. thus you are saved by grace. through the faith that he enables in you. works develop as a result of the inherent changes that happen in the truly bought but are otherwise useless and meaningless outside of evidence. however, so many who claim to be 'saved' are lacking in so many ways that i question their fire insurance.

Indeed. I would be so annoyed if all of the most vocal atheists were also nihilists, or worse.

Good people aren't given salvation. Good people go to Hell. It's bad people who get saved.I would have thought it obvious. Like, why would a good person need salvation? From what must a good person be saved?"The Gospel is Good News for bad people and Bad News for good people"

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

Lets say it has layers. "And I will make you a fisher of men" What do fish get pulled out of? The sea. What is the biblical picture for the sea? Evil, turmoil. What is a believer (the caught fish) on an earth (a place full of evil and turmoil)? An alien. Where is his true home, his citizenship? Heaven.The bible says we will feel like fish out of water. It's couldn't be more accurate. A believer longs for his true water - heaven. Accepting God doesn't mean you cease to exist - although the worship language of Christianity would make it appear that you become some kind of worshipping automaton. You actually only become a true self when you come to know God. God does nothing to interfere with who you are, what he does is remove the rubbish that stops you being fully you.At the moment your a guitar that's out of tune. The songs can be played but they sound discordant, sullied as they are by sin. God doesn't stop you from being a guitar. He just tunes you up.Take Paul for example. Before conversion, a top-grade Pharisee, part of the intellectual elite, master of the Judaic law, fanatical defender of his then faith. Nothing about his zeal, his intellect, his faith-defending abilities was altered by his conversion. God used the exact same characteristics, Pauls very own individual, God-given nature...but for His own purpose, not Satans.You're not independant RR, you are under the influence of someone. Satan (who assists you maintaining the illusion that you are master of your own destiny (god)) or God. You only get to choose which one.

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

God cannot directly reveal himself - otherwise your free will to believe in him him would evaporate (if you consider for a moment what someone who created all this would be like to meet. He would be impossible to deny)God calls and a person can respond or not. In deciding 'no' they are saying in effect, "God I don't want you" (God only reveals himself when a person says "God I do want you (in whatever fashion that takes place)").When they die that decision becomes an eternal one - given that they have entered eternity. They haven't wanted God in life and God says in effect "thy will be done" - because their will is something he has given and will not take away. God 'wrath' involves complying with that persons will. He removes all his presence from them - because the person has chosen that that's what they want.It is perfectly just, perfectly fairWhat's so sick? It can be so easily avoided

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

A Christian who claims God is Love yet forgets to mention God is Wrath, God is Just etc is doing God and the person they are talking to a disservice. God is all of these things. All of these attributes must be satisifed.God cannot ignore sin, that wouldn't be just. God cannot not punish sin, that would conflict with his wrath. God being love means he cannot stand by and watch those he loves perish. All the attributes must be satisfied - equally. God has found a way whereby they all can be. Try taking your focus off YOU and focus on God for a sec. All that has to happen is that his attributes are fully satisfied - not yours. Remember that you are not the centre of the world - he is. God IS, you are only created.Can you put it into perspective? Like, step off the throne and look around. You don't belong on the throne - he does.Why not worship the rightful occupant of the throne. It's illogical not to.This message has been edited by iano, 30-Sep-2005 11:06 AM

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

After she settles in, herself and myself are going to take a stroll down to meet Paul and his able disciple Martyn Lloyd Jones. Then I'm going to go off and satisfy my curiousity and see if Hitler is there. I'm also dying (sic) to see what work God has lined up for me. It will be something along the lines of Heavenly Engineering I hope. Not that I mind. I'll be enjoying it whatever. The list goes on

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

This won't be possible. That we are relational is a God-given attribute. Part of his providence. No God = none of God's blessing. You won't relate to anyone in any way that you understand (and enjoy it) here.Only your shame, your guilt, your deceit, your selfishness to comtemplate. All your own work as it were and nobody to blame. Don't think I take pleasure in saying this Omni. My guts churn and at times I cry my eyes out at the thought of others perishing so. God does too. One would go mad if one dwelt too long on it.Seek. For Christs and your own sake....seek....(ps: I am no less shameful, guilty, deceitful and selfish than you. A filthy sinner - likely worse. But someone has done something about it for me. I don't deserve this grace it any more than you. I just accepted it. It's as simple and complex as that)This message has been edited by iano, 30-Sep-2005 10:53 AM

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

From death.

I didn't write this.

Good people can't die. Only sinners die. "The wages of sin is death" No sin = no death.Or did you mean YOUR standard of good (which is not a standard - seeing as it is subjective). Gods standard of good (which is a standard - given that it is absolute) is the one that counts and by HIS standard, there are no good people - only bad.Mother Theresa, Hilter, you, me. All steeped in the filth and dirt of sin. There was only one born and who remained sinless. Only one who was considered a suitable sacrifice on which to lay sin. But death couldn't hold Jesus - which is why he rose from death.

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

Corrected. Sorry

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....

The analogy seems a little confused. If we are fish, then the water corresponds to worldly evil, or something of that sort. Dry land equals heaven. So heaven can't be water.Heaven is the place where all the paradoxes are supposed to unravel--one is both a self and not a self; God is both all-powerful and all-good and yet contains or creates or permits evil; people are both free and pre-destined; what God says is good is good and yet God also obeys some higher laws of goodness . . . and many other impossibilites.

If everybody is equally bad, then He might as well let us all off. No need for hell.

Man is born 'in' Adam. ie: he is, spiritually, in Adams camp. When a person turns to God, God carries out a forensic re-positioning. He takes the person out of Adam and puts him 'in' Christ (see for example Romans 8:1 for one of many 'in' statements).Jesus said "I am the water of life" "I AM" is a name God gives himself, water, life. If your a fish and you want to live then you need this water. You need to be in the water. You need to be in Christ. You need God to put you in the water. You need God to catch you. One is not self without God. They are shadows of self. Fully self means being plugged into what makes you self.God doesn't create evil, he creates choice. Consider the following: Heat exists, Cold doesn't. Cold is simply the absence of heat. Light exists, Darkness doesn't, Darkeness is simply the absence of light. Good exists, evil doesn't. Evil in simply the absence of Good. When God is excluded, evil follows. God doesn't obey higher laws, He is these things. Don't forget wrath and justice. Don't fall for the line God is Love - period.

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"Jesus wept" John 11:35. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. What caused him to weep? Anothers death....