Looking for Former Evolutionists who are now Creationists

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ I think it was the basic goings on in the cell. He used to talk a lot about mitochondria. I'll ask him. I strongly suspect it was the 'big picture' (no pun intended) that he saw that dawned on him.

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So maybe he can answer the question I have been asking for years and have never gotten an answer to. TB, can you ask him for me?How do we tell the difference between an ID system and a natural one which we;1) don't understand yet, or2) don't have the ability to understand?

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Schraf

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It's not a black and white answer. As a scientist of course I understand that life works mechanistically. I know that there is no law of physics broken when a gene duplicates and drifts. Evolution is possible.

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Indeed, it is the only conclusion one can make if one is actually working from the evidence.

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But the life on this planet is incredible.

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Agreed. Why does our perception of "incredible" indicate God?We used to think it "incredible" that the sun moved across the sky every day, and thought that a god pulled it in his firey chariot.Being amazed and awed by nature is a poor reason, IMO, to deny science in favor of unsupported dogma.

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The most likely amnswer is creation.

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Most likely why? Just because you are amazed, Biblical Creation is likely?

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Since that realization God has witnesseed that to my heart in numerous ways. Thre is no proof.

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Exactly. There is no proof. There is only your faith and your assertions.Then why do you insist that science indicates Biblical Creation if "there is no proof"?If we cannot tell the difference between that which has been Intelligently Designed and that which is natural but which we don't understand, then there can be no claim of ID, ever.No scientific one, anyway.

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Your point is a valid one. But I still believe God would tell you that you are kidding yourself when you doubt the validity of the design arguement.

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But if you can't tell the difference between ID and not-understood natural, then there is no argument. There is only assertion without evidence. It is only God of the Gaps philosophy.

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Schraf

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I can't prove it to you. But I have numerous proofs of God in my life including a handful of undeniable miracles and so I beleive him about creation and the flood. I can only recommend the journey.

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I could say that I have numerous proofs that the Galactic Goat has performed "a handful of undeniable miracles" in my life, and so I believe that the GG belched forth the universe, etc.Believe me? No?? Why not? I might have just as strong a belief in my Goat God, maybe even a stronger belief, than you do in your Judeo/Christian God.

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Science is simply compatible with creaton and the flood.

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So sez you.If you mean the Bible stories, you are simply wrong, unless you twist and ignore evidence.

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I never said there is no differnece between ID and non-ID.

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Neither did you show that there is a difference, or at least evidence, which is what you would need to show if you say that ID is scientifically-supported.

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You can try and quantify the significance of ID.

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Without knowing how to tell if something is ID or not, how can this be done?

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I still think God would say 'Sorry Schraf, but it was intuitively obvious. You went thorugh incredible contortions to conjour me away but I'm still here and I did it just like I said I did'.

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That's nice.It has no affect on my argument, though."Intuitively obvious?" It is intuitively obvious that the Earth is flat. It is intuitively obvious that the sun moves around the earth.But both of these are false, so our intuition fails.Science is so very powerful a tool for discovery in large part because it removes a great deal of the deeply flawed human intuition from the process of explaining the natural world.------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"