Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8945 total)
35 online now:
DrJones*, dwise1, Faith, jar, Tanypteryx, Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (6 members, 29 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Post Volume: Total: 865,784 Year: 20,820/19,786 Month: 1,217/2,023 Week: 168/557 Day: 55/43 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who to believe , Ham or Ross?
nator
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 211 of 223 (197343)
04-06-2005 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by jar
04-06-2005 7:51 PM


Re: Too funny for words.
quote:
You're remarkably intellegent for a woman.

So what's your excuse? :D

This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-06-2005 07:04 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 04-06-2005 7:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by jar, posted 04-06-2005 8:08 PM nator has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31661
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 212 of 223 (197345)
04-06-2005 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by nator
04-06-2005 8:03 PM


Re: Too funny for words.
Ah, my excuse is that I am not a woman. I am like the fabled cat that studied ornithology.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 8:03 PM nator has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12647
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 213 of 223 (197415)
04-07-2005 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by nator
04-06-2005 7:42 PM


Re: Too funny for words.
Schraf writes:

On the one hand, I agree with you.

On the other hand, she just called me the stupidest person on EvC.

But you're used to being a lightning rod.

One thing discussion with Faith makes apparent is that she approaches the debate with pretty much the same attitude we do. She believes all the facts are on her side, and that once she makes us aware of those facts that we'll be persuaded. In her view, denying the obvious truth of the Bible after all the information she's provided is simply stubborn and perverse. In her eye we're just mindlessly arguing for our viewpoint even though we must know by now that it's wrong.

Persuading Faith (which, let's not kid ourselves, is unlikely) is going to be a two step process. First, she's got to be convinced of the nature of true evidence. The opinion of fifty billion Christians *can* be wrong, but more importantly, it doesn't mean squat as evidence. Second, she has to be presented the evidence for geology (not evolution, since she doesn't seem actively involved in that topic right now) and be provided the means of interpreting it properly. While old rivers and streams should occasionally be preserved in the geologic column, in general erosion is like sandpaper - it smooths and levels. And we must realize that as she learns more her misconceptions will increase, not decrease as we might expect, because she's driven by the need to preserve consistency with the Biblical stories.

If Faith decides to stay it should be quite an interesting battle. Faith is willing to explore the logical implications of evidence, but her innate ingenuity often finds implications we hadn't anticipated.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 7:42 PM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by JonF, posted 04-07-2005 10:53 AM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 216 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-01-2005 8:51 PM Admin has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5534
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 214 of 223 (197434)
04-07-2005 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Admin
04-07-2005 9:48 AM


OT: Buried riverbeds & canyons
I know, I know ... but I've got to post this somewhere

In Message 101 Admin posted Faith's image. I guess she (is that settled?) is asking why we don't see that sort of thing. The answer is that we do see that sort of thing, in radar images and seismic images and satellite images and borehole chains and what-not ... and these observations are obviously incompatible with a global flood. Faith's just tremendously overestimating the likelyhood of such features breaking through to view in a place like the Grand Canyon.

From River Channels Buried deep in the Geologic Column, a picture of channels in Pleistocene rock:


Click to enlarge

From We've Done Rivers, Let's Do Canyons, an Eocene canyon buried a mile under the ocean floor:


Click to enlarge

(Lots more pictures and discussion at the above URLs).

From Space radar image of Wadi Kufra, Libya, another buried river:


Click to enlarge

From South Africa, Namibia Diamond Deposits a look at the ancient course of the Orange River, where diamonds might be found:


Click to enlarge

From SUBSURFACE MORPHOLOGY AND GEOARCHAEOLOGY REVEALED BY SPACEBORNE AND AIRBORNE RADAR one of the first SIR-A pictures of channels just beneath the Sahara desert:

From Salt water timebombs buried terrain in eastern Australia:

Finally, from Komex Geophysics: Seismic Refraction and Reflection, another seismic of a buried channel:


Click to enlarge

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Admin, posted 04-07-2005 9:48 AM Admin has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13220
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 215 of 223 (248046)
10-01-2005 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
03-30-2005 11:34 PM


Re: What this thread is about
I would be cautious about the corrolaries between the U.S. and right/wrong, and also about the corrolaries between Christianity and creationism. Beyond that, I agree with you wholeheartedly about Jesus being a real person (and alive today!) and I am impressed, BTW about your presentation of knowledge from varied sources.

One thing that I need to find out, as I glance up at the topic:
Who is Ham or Ross?? :)

Seriously, though...you are tenacious, Faith!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 03-30-2005 11:34 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13220
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 216 of 223 (248048)
10-01-2005 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Admin
04-07-2005 9:48 AM


Re: Too funny for words.
Percy writes:

The opinion of fifty billion Christians *can* be wrong, but more importantly, it doesn't mean squat as evidence.

In regards to creationism and straight up literalism, I agree with you.

In terms of God Himself and Jesus Christ, the experience of fifty Brazilian Christians, whom we knew well, would count as something in the evidence department, would it not? I mean, is EVERYTHING empirical? By the way...before I drift us off topic, I really MUST find out who Ham and Ross are! :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Admin, posted 04-07-2005 9:48 AM Admin has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13220
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 217 of 223 (248050)
10-01-2005 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
03-27-2005 8:07 PM


The Wizard of Cause
NOW I Know who Ken Ham is...I question his science.

Who is Hugh Ross?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 03-27-2005 8:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 10-01-2005 8:59 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 219 by nwr, posted 10-01-2005 8:59 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 220 by GDR, posted 10-01-2005 9:36 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31661
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 218 of 223 (248052)
10-01-2005 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Thugpreacha
10-01-2005 8:54 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
Hugh Ross is but another con man.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-01-2005 8:54 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by GDR, posted 10-01-2005 9:39 PM jar has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5587
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 219 of 223 (248053)
10-01-2005 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Thugpreacha
10-01-2005 8:54 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
Hugh Ross
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c014.html

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-01-2005 8:54 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5004
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 220 of 223 (248065)
10-01-2005 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Thugpreacha
10-01-2005 8:54 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
Here's his home web site

http://www.reasons.org/index.shtml


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-01-2005 8:54 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5004
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 221 of 223 (248067)
10-01-2005 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by jar
10-01-2005 8:59 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
jar writes:

Hugh Ross is but another con man.

Just curious what you base that statement on jar.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 10-01-2005 8:59 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-01-2005 9:41 PM GDR has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31661
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 222 of 223 (248068)
10-01-2005 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by GDR
10-01-2005 9:39 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
Website with a shopping cart. LOL


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by GDR, posted 10-01-2005 9:39 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by GDR, posted 10-01-2005 10:09 PM jar has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5004
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 223 of 223 (248073)
10-01-2005 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by jar
10-01-2005 9:41 PM


Re: The Wizard of Cause
jar writes:

Website with a shopping cart. LOL

I know what you mean. :) In the end though, I think that only matters if the money raised by a ministry is for the ministry or the minister. I'm not prepared to lump him in with Benny Hinn without more knowledge about him.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-01-2005 9:41 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019