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Author Topic:   First Gay marriage, then Polygamy (its happening!)
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 5 of 94 (248151)
10-02-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Silent H
10-02-2005 8:38 AM


Cause and Effect?
I'm a little confused here. Is the premise that gay marriage leads to polygamy, because as I understand it gay marriage is not legal in Utah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Silent H, posted 10-02-2005 8:38 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Silent H, posted 10-02-2005 1:13 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 19 by gene90, posted 10-02-2005 3:53 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 10 of 94 (248210)
10-02-2005 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Silent H
10-02-2005 1:13 PM


Re: Cause and Effect?
Of course some proponents of gay marriage end up trying to argue that there is no logical equivalence between the two
Well there frankly isn't.
Gay marriage is a union of two individuals, polygamy is more than two.
Polygamy has as much (or more) in common with straight marriage than gay marriage.
But the bigger issue is the if then nature of the argument. "IF gays can marry, then Polygamists can marry". So?
As long as we're not talking about minors, or people forced into contracts against their will, who cares.
What Frank does in his house over the next hill is none of my business as long as he's not hurting anyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Silent H, posted 10-02-2005 1:13 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Silent H, posted 10-02-2005 3:19 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2005 3:43 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 23 of 94 (248370)
10-02-2005 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Silent H
10-02-2005 3:19 PM


Re: Cause and Effect?
And that shows there is no logical equivalence how?
Are you asking me to prove the negative? Show me the logical equivalence of two adults entering into a contract and more than two adults entering into a contract, then'll I'll take steps to disprove.
But I have to point out that marrying "minors" may be a slippery slope issue in some quarters, but not the same way as gays and polygamy and marrying animals. That's the usual line.
Marriage is a legal issue. It's about contracts. You don't need a priest to get married. You do need a licence and a witness. As such, the whole gay / polygamy thing isn't really a problem. However, minors can't willingly enter into contracts. And neither can animals.
Seems a pretty well defined line to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Silent H, posted 10-02-2005 3:19 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 4:13 AM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 24 of 94 (248372)
10-02-2005 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by RAZD
10-02-2005 3:43 PM


Re: Cause and Effect?
Your assumptions are showing.
Perhaps, but polygamy has historically been one man, multiple women in a heterosexual relationship. As such, it's not such a huge step from normal marriage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2005 3:43 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 25 of 94 (248373)
10-02-2005 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by gene90
10-02-2005 3:53 PM


Re: Cause and Effect?
Second of all, polygamy is not legal in Utah.
Well, it was. And it's still going on there with a much higher frequency than anywhere else in the US.
First of all, cause and effect does not necessarily mean that a relationship works both ways or that an effect can only have one cause.
Ummm, okay. But my question was how does gay marriage cause polygamy? Polygamy exists in places where gay marriage does not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by gene90, posted 10-02-2005 3:53 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 4:17 AM Nuggin has replied
 Message 35 by gene90, posted 10-03-2005 6:27 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 31 of 94 (248512)
10-03-2005 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Silent H
10-03-2005 4:13 AM


Re: Cause and Effect?
Perhaps you missed the OP. I just showed that more than two adults entering a contract is the same as two adults entering a contract. This is not to mention that we have many examples of this outside of marriage, for example a business can have many partners or just two, or you can have contracts with many credit card companies, or just one.
Disprove.
No need, you made my point for me. Polygamy is not closer related to homosexual marriage than it is to heterosexual marraige.
And I explain to you that minors can and do get married all over the place (including the US) and you repeat your original assertion that minors can't willingly enter into contracts without ever dealing with my explanation
I am dealing specifically with the US. I don't care about other cultures systems since I can't vote there.
Yes, minors do marry in the US - with parental consent. So, just like a child actor who's signing onto a TV show, they can not enter into the contract themselves. They have to have an adult who is responsible for them sign the contract.
Do I think that parents of 16 year olds should allow their daughter to marry? No. But, that's a State issue and a contract issue. I'll leave it up to the local courts / governments.
If you want me to have an interest in your posts, deal with what is being shown to you.
You have yet to answer the original question from your original theory - Does Gay Marriage lead to Polygamy?
You've show that in one country they have gay marriage and they also have polygamy. And in this case, I believe gay polygamy. But where is the causation? There are pleny of places without gay marriage and with polygamy. You are drawing false conclusions.
Start "showing me" stuff and I'll deal with it. But this homophobic retoric you are spewing doesn't come close to fact.
Within the world the lowest age of marriage (IIRC) is 9, and I trust we agree that that is a minor? What they cannot do is get married without consent of the parents.
Should have finished reading your post before I hit reply.
Why are you mad that I am not answering you posts? You are doing an excellent job of defeating your own points all by yourself.
Do very young children get married in different cultures around the world? Sure. Do we care? Not for this discussion. The legal age of consent in the Rainforest is probably very different than in Manhattan. Also, what's meant by "marriage" is very different.
Stick to the US, where we both have a solid foundation in the legal system, where we can both vote, where you are trying to show that allowing gays to marry will allow cats to marry parrots.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 4:13 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 2:55 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 32 of 94 (248517)
10-03-2005 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Silent H
10-03-2005 4:17 AM


Re: Cause and Effect?
The point is that if gay marriage is allowed, legal reasons for preventing polygamy are undercut and it would have to be allowed as well.
Let's assume this is true.
Who cares? Are you afraid you are going to be forced into a polygamist marriage?
Do you think that polygamy is wrong? Care to give some reasons for that thought?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 4:17 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 2:15 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2518 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 36 of 94 (248686)
10-03-2005 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Silent H
10-03-2005 2:55 PM


Re: Cause and Effect?
Your a troll right? I don't understand what you are talking about. I am for gay marriage and for polygamous marriage.
Now I think we are both confused. Because I think we are in 100% agreement on these issues. What are we arguing about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Silent H, posted 10-03-2005 2:55 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Silent H, posted 10-04-2005 5:16 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
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