No Abiogenesis, no Evolution, then what?

CREATION is the only other option, not "God." I believe there is only one God, as shown us in the Bible, but in this conversation I only say that there are just the two options, that is, either life arose by purely natural blind chemical processes, or a mind created it. Either it just happened to happen or it was intentionally created. I see no other options. So you'd have to show me that there are other options.

I don't see the problem. A Christian would base all knowledge of biology on Genesis. Other religions would have their own versions of creation. What we'd be debating then is pure religion, which version of creation, which God, is the true one.

I can't think of any. Can you?

Not for the same reason, but I'm very interested in considering all the possibilities. I simply can't think of any.

I guess, but why is that relevant. If we can't think of one we have nothing to discuss.This message has been edited by Faith, 10-07-2005 12:07 AM

So there is no origin, but only distribution in this model? Nevertheless it is apparently a naturalistic model, right? Nothing supernatural.

I'll ignore your imputation of motives to me and just ask, can you think of any?

I'm simply trying to cover the field. There seem to be various theories floating around, various creator "gods" and aliens yes. I don't know what all. Gaia is an idea. I'm not sure what that is. Sort of a conscious universe or something like that. Whether "creation" is done by "Gaia" I don't know. Speaking of the Biblical God and Biblical creation, this isn't deduced from anything, it is known by revelation. It is a viable theory held by many and if the odds are against all naturalistic origins it gives weight to theistic creationism. Nothing. We'd simply never have come up with evolution or abiogenesis. Our genetics, our neurology, whatever, would take creation for granted and otherwise not be different from those sciences as they now exist. We'd probably look for evidence of DEvolution in genetics as that would follow from our Biblical assumptions rather than evolution. But otherwise, science as usual. Maybe not required, but it would be nice to acknowledge the Creator of it all, and thank Him for it, and in fact depend upon Him to increase our scientific knowledge. As I say above, Christians, independent of science, believe God is the Creator of all things. We EXPECT naturalistic explanations ultimately to fail. So when evo and abio are deposed, as you put it, for us that is simply proof of what we know already.This message has been edited by Faith, 10-07-2005 12:25 AM

So then we have three possibilities?

No. If there ARE none, yes, but not being able to think of any though there are some, no. Not at all. I believe what I believe from the Bible. God created everything at one point in time, or over a period of seven days. After it was created I have no reason to think He did any more creating. He now sustains what He created but doesn't add anything more to it. Whatever we don't understand about the natural world is for science to study. Science is completely compatible with God as the Bible reveals Him (in fact wouldn't have developed without belief in Him) except on those points where it denies the Bible, the Creation and the Flood.

Really it all appears to break down to naturalistic origin vs. creation by something or someone, as I've been saying. 3, 4, 8 and 9 are creation, the rest are naturalistic.

Actually since 8 and 9 bring up the infinite regress situation, the question of the origin of the aliens and the future humans, it is not yet determined whether they are naturalistic or supernatural.This message has been edited by Faith, 10-07-2005 11:23 PM

Except that the way we know about God is through revelation (though some are smart enough to see Him in His creation), and revelation tells us that He is uncreated. No infinite regression of the Biblical God.

Huh?
Don't buy what?God is the only uncreated thing, the only beginningless thing. He preexisted everything He has made by an eternity.

God is not "bio" as in "abiogenesis." Only things and life were created. God is Spirit, uncreated, above it all. He didn't "come from" anything. He has always Been.