Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,812 Year: 4,069/9,624 Month: 940/974 Week: 267/286 Day: 28/46 Hour: 3/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   No Abiogenesis, no Evolution, then what?
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 173 (249659)
10-06-2005 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Yaro
10-06-2005 10:37 PM


Other options????
Life has always existed. In the beginning there was life.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Yaro, posted 10-06-2005 10:37 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by bkelly, posted 10-07-2005 7:29 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 173 (249668)
10-06-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Asgara
10-06-2005 10:47 PM


Life has always existed
If we look at the evidence, there's no indication that life has not always existed. It doesn't seem that there was some moment when there was no life, or some creation event.
When we look, we find signs of life throughout the geological column. We look at fossils and find they go back billions of years, as far back as we can go. What we see is that life tends to get simpler as we go back but still there. When we get to places where we thought there might not be life we still find the signs they were there, tracks and tunnels of softbodied critters that would not have fossilized.
Until someone can show evidence that there was a time before life, the only possible conclusion is that life has always existed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Asgara, posted 10-06-2005 10:47 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Tryannasapien Rex, posted 06-09-2006 4:39 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 39 of 173 (249850)
10-07-2005 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
10-07-2005 1:54 PM


Not at all. I believe what I believe from the Bible. God created everything at one point in time, or over a period of seven days.
Well, there is ample evidence that is false, so that option may be safely disregarded under any scenario.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 10-07-2005 1:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 173 (249901)
10-07-2005 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by bkelly
10-07-2005 7:29 PM


Re: Other options????
All the evidence seems to point towards life always existing.
No matter where we look we find signs of life.
When we look at the geological layers we find life.
When we look around we find life.
When we look in the depths we find life.
When we look at the Black or White Smokers existing under unbelievable pressures away from all sunlight, we find life.
When we look in boiling hot springs, we find life.
When we look under the ice in the Arctic, we find life.
When we look under the ice in the AntArctic, we find life.
When we look in the deserts, the seas, the mountains, the rims of volcanos, the plains, the valleys, the shores, we find life.
Life is everywhere.
Where is the evidence that it had a beginning?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by bkelly, posted 10-07-2005 7:29 PM bkelly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Heathen, posted 10-07-2005 7:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 47 of 173 (249906)
10-07-2005 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Heathen
10-07-2005 7:53 PM


Re: Other options????
The only place we've examined is here on earth. Until there is evidence otherwise, why would we make any judgement about other than here on earth?
But there is no evidence that life does not exist in other places or that it has not existed for all time.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Heathen, posted 10-07-2005 7:53 PM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Heathen, posted 10-07-2005 8:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 173 (249910)
10-07-2005 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Heathen
10-07-2005 8:06 PM


Re: Other options????
I would suggest there is sufficient evidence to say 'terrestrial' (for want of a better word) life doesnot and cannot exist in the vacuum of space... for instance.
Really?
We've made similar assumption many times in the past only to soon find out we were wrong. For example we were pretty sure that life could not exist in the cold, dark high pressure environment of the deepest marine trenches. We were pretty sure life could not exist within the ice at the poles. We were pretty sure that life could not exist in hot sulpher springs.
Yet in each case, we found we were wrong.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Heathen, posted 10-07-2005 8:06 PM Heathen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by bkelly, posted 10-07-2005 9:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 173 (249924)
10-07-2005 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by bkelly
10-07-2005 9:07 PM


Re: Other options????
for life to exist something must exist, but there is no reason to thing that where something exists, life exists.
Surviving in Space
In November, 1969, the Surveyor 3 spacecraft's microorganisms were recovered from inside its camera that was brought back to Earth under sterile conditions by the Apollo 12 crew. The 50-100 organisms survived launch, space vacuum, 3 years of radiation exposure, deep-freeze at an average temperature of only 20 degrees above absolute zero, and no nutrient, water or energy source.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by bkelly, posted 10-07-2005 9:07 PM bkelly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Heathen, posted 10-08-2005 10:20 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 55 of 173 (249935)
10-07-2005 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by bkelly
10-07-2005 8:02 PM


Re: Other options????
There are even microbes that can live IN a nuclear reactor.
Can you believe it? There are bacteria that can live *inside* nuclear reactors.
Deinococcus radiodurans
"The members of the family Deinococcaceae have the distinctive feature of being the most radiation-resistant of vegetative cells. Certain strains have survived as much as 5 Mrad of gamma radiation. An important component of this radiation resistance is the ability to repair damage to chromosomal DNA."
-- National Center for Genome Resources
So far we have not found an environment where life cannot exist. Everywhere we look we find life. That's why sterilization is such a big problem.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by bkelly, posted 10-07-2005 8:02 PM bkelly has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 63 of 173 (249959)
10-08-2005 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Yaro
10-08-2005 12:20 AM


While there is no evidence that GOD exists
there is ample evidence that life exists everywhere and in every era we've examined.
It's far more likely that Life has existed forever.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Yaro, posted 10-08-2005 12:20 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Yaro, posted 10-08-2005 10:01 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 78 of 173 (250161)
10-08-2005 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by bkelly
10-08-2005 8:52 PM


Re: Some alternatives
Check Message 44
Use Peek (lowerright) to see how I did it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by bkelly, posted 10-08-2005 8:52 PM bkelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by bkelly, posted 10-08-2005 9:01 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 173 (250165)
10-08-2005 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by bkelly
10-08-2005 8:58 PM


Re: Not preposterous at all.
That's OT both in this thread and forum. We're in a Faith forum and thus beliefs about GOD are acceptable and appropriate.
Now if you can show evidence to support the position that life had a beginning ...

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by bkelly, posted 10-08-2005 8:58 PM bkelly has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024