thera/red sea parting

just picked up 'Raging Planet' by Bill Mcguire....
has some ideas that i found interesting....(p.29)"Around 7,000 years ago, a pile of sediment the size of Wales collapsed into the North Atlantic from the Norwegian continental shelf, sending waves 50 feet high crashing into northeast Scotland.At around that time the rising Mediterranean finally smashed it's way through a zone of crustal weakness, sending a raging torrent of water into the lower-lying Black Sea via the greatest waterfall ever known, and forcing the mass migration of those (suriving)peoples living around what was then just a large freshwater lake.As the Earth's crust continued to strain and creak beneath the rapidly expanding oceans; huge volcanic explosions choked the skies. Around 5,000 years ago, a great mass of rock from Mount Etna plummeted into the sea, perhaps prompting the inhabitants of eastern Sicily to head further west. Just 3,600 years ago the demise of the great Bronze Age civilization of the Minoans was heralded by the obliteration of the Greek island of Thera in a terrible volcanic cataclysm that spawned the Atlantis myth. The eruption may have been violent enougth to part the waters of the Red Sea and allow the fleeing Israelites passage....The parting of the Red Sea may have been the waters withdrawing prior to the arrival of a deadly tsunami triggered by the volcanic obliteration of Thera. Recent submarine surveys have revealed signs of a long-drowned civilization below the waves of the Black Sea."Anyone out there know of direct counter-evidence to these ideas? ------------------
*******sleeper********

should've put this in the book nook
{Moved - Adminnemooseus}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-28-2002]

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Originally posted by graedek:
just picked up 'Raging Planet' by Bill Mcguire....
has some ideas that i found interesting....(p.29)

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"Around 7,000 years ago, a pile of sediment the size of Wales collapsed into the North Atlantic from the Norwegian continental shelf, sending waves 50 feet high crashing into northeast Scotland.

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At around that time the rising Mediterranean finally smashed it's way through a zone of crustal weakness, sending a raging torrent of water into the lower-lying Black Sea via the greatest waterfall ever known, and forcing the mass migration of those (suriving)peoples living around what was then just a large freshwater lake.

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As the Earth's crust continued to strain and creak beneath the rapidly expanding oceans; huge volcanic explosions choked the skies. Around 5,000 years ago, a great mass of rock from Mount Etna plummeted into the sea, perhaps prompting the inhabitants of eastern Sicily to head further west. Just 3,600 years ago the demise of the great Bronze Age civilization of the Minoans was heralded by the obliteration of the Greek island of Thera in a terrible volcanic cataclysm that spawned the Atlantis myth. The eruption may have been violent enougth to part the waters of the Red Sea and allow the fleeing Israelites passage.

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...The parting of the Red Sea may have been the waters withdrawing prior to the arrival of a deadly tsunami triggered by the volcanic obliteration of Thera. Recent submarine surveys have revealed signs of a long-drowned civilization below the waves of the Black Sea."

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Anyone out there know of direct counter-evidence to these ideas?

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Two major problems with this is that the crossing was not at the Red Sea. 'Yam Suph', which means Sea of Reeds, has been mistranlsated into Red Sea. The Red Sea has no reeds and cannot be the sea of the Exodus.Also, saying that this event happened 3,600 years ago is a few hundred years too early for the Israelite exodus. We know from Manetho and archaeology that there was no pharaoh called Rameses before 1320 BCE so the Exodus, if it happened at all, had to be later that 1320.That makes two major problems for this theory, the exodus was not at the Red Sea and if it happened it was about 300 years after this theory says it did.I am pretty sure the scientists at this site can find scientific errors with this theory too.Best Wishes
Brian.

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Originally posted by graedek:
sending a raging torrent of water into the lower-lying Black Sea via the greatest waterfall ever known, and forcing the mass migration of those (suriving)peoples living around what was then just a large freshwater lake.

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Possibly the origin of the flood myths.

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As the Earth's crust continued to strain and creak beneath the rapidly expanding oceans; huge volcanic explosions choked the skies.

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Oceans are not terribly massive compared to the size of the crust and mantle beneath it.You may be interesting in reading the discussion edge and I had with wmscott concerning just this effect. I believe this exchange starts somewhere around post 300. EvC Forum: Solving the Mystery of the Biblical Flood

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The eruption may have been violent enougth to part the waters of the Red Sea and allow the fleeing Israelites passage.

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There is no natural process that can produce what is described in Exodus. Perhaps you want to claim artistic license for the authors of the tale?

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The parting of the Red Sea may have been the waters withdrawing prior to the arrival of a deadly tsunami triggered by the volcanic obliteration of Thera.

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Again, you must claim artistic license. The Bible states that the water were like a wall on the left and on the right. It also states that the ground was dry. This isn't going to happen if the cause was a tsunami.

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Recent submarine surveys have revealed signs of a long-drowned civilization below the waves of the Black Sea.

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Of course. Around any major lake or sea you'll likey find buried settlements. Lake levels rise and fall. Things are going to get submerged. When did these civilizations get submerged? To have any real
meaning from a Biblical point of view, they'd have to have been buried at the same time.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by John:

There is no natural process that can produce what is described in Exodus. Perhaps you want to claim artistic license for the authors of the tale?
..Again, you must claim artistic license. The Bible states that the water were like a wall on the left and on the right. It also states that the ground was dry. This isn't going to happen if the cause was a tsunami.

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What do you mean by 'claim artistic license?' I'm unsure of your meaning there... ------------------

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Originally posted by graedek:
What do you mean by 'claim artistic license?' I'm unsure of your meaning there...

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The Bible does not describe events as would be produced by anything natural. The parting of the Red Sea is described as the waters dividing and forming walls on either side, and the ground was dry.If the story of the parting of the Red Sea has any basis in natural phenomena then the authors of Exodus embellished the story. This is alright by me. People tend to embellish these things. But it leads to trouble from a theological point of view. You have to start asking how much of the Bible is true and how much was made up to make a better story.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by John:

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Originally posted by graedek:
What do you mean by 'claim artistic license?' I'm unsure of your meaning there...

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The Bible does not describe events as would be produced by anything natural. The parting of the Red Sea is described as the waters dividing and forming walls on either side, and the ground was dry.

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If the story of the parting of the Red Sea has any basis in natural phenomena then the authors of Exodus embellished the story. This is alright by me. People tend to embellish these things. But it leads to trouble from a theological point of view. You have to start asking how much of the Bible is true and how much was made up to make a better story.

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I'm not sure about this particular idea being the explanation for this particular o.t miracle. Though I do think that God most likely used the natural functions of the earth to perform such miracles. What gets me whether the actual account is embelished or not is the timing of these occurances. Which to me would lend some credibility to God's perfect timing. I know i'm going to get killed for that. So to me whether or not the story is embelished (though i don't say they necessarily are, i just don't know) the timing of the event in favour of God's people the Isrealites is incredible. A testimony to God's perfect timing and faithfullness to those who he has made promises to. That is if you like playing in the corner with your bible talking to yourself. ------------------
saved by grace

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
What gets me whether the actual account is embelished or not is the timing of these occurances.

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Did you miss post #3? The timing isn't perfect.

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So to me whether or not the story is embelished (though i don't say they necessarily are, i just don't know) the timing of the event in favour of God's people the Isrealites is incredible.

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The timing isn't right for this event, so God must not have liked em very much. Nor is there any evidence that the exodus occured at all, so it is a bit of a moot point.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

I guess i wasn't very clear when i said i didn't ascribe to this particular event being the explanation to the parting of the Red Sea though if the dating turned up to be off maybe it would be a possible explanation. I was saying that though this may not be case here that God may have used the earths natural functions for alot of o.t events. The fact that the timing always benefitted Israel when they were told it would, was what I was getting at. And i knew you were going to say the bibles lying anyway ,that was why i added the "playing in the corner with my bible" remark. Was trying to point out that even IF some of the events of the bible are exaggerated the fact that God kept his promises to Israel is still there. Which doesn't damage the credibility of God but in fact would give credibility. And that would be the point of the o.t. (IMO) I'll go back in the corner with my bible now.------------------
saved by grace

Probably the best reason for not using the Thera eruption as an explanation for the OT story about the parting of the Red Sea is that the Mediterranean and Red Seas had no physical link from roughly 18 million years ago (Late Burdigalian) to the opening of the Suez Canal. Ergo, no tsunamis in the Red Sea from this event.

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
Was trying to point out that even IF some of the events of the bible are exaggerated the fact that God kept his promises to Israel is still there.

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But the exagerrations, if you are to allow them, do great damage to the reliability of the Bible. We can no longer tell what actually happened from what was made up to make a juicy tale.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
I guess i wasn't very clear when i said i didn't ascribe to this particular event being the explanation to the parting of the Red Sea though if the dating turned up to be off maybe it would be a possible explanation. I was saying that though this may not be case here that God may have used the earths natural functions for alot of o.t events. The fact that the timing always benefitted Israel when they were told it would, was what I was getting at. And i knew you were going to say the bibles lying anyway ,that was why i added the "playing in the corner with my bible" remark. Was trying to point out that even IF some of the events of the bible are exaggerated the fact that God kept his promises to Israel is still there. Which doesn't damage the credibility of God but in fact would give credibility. And that would be the point of the o.t. (IMO) I'll go back in the corner with my bible now.

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FunkyWith the greatest of respect I really recommend that you take an introduction to the Bible course at a local college.All you are doing here is reinforcing some people's views that Chrsitians are idiots.Learn about the Bible, why was it written the way it was, what was the purpose of the Bible authors, do external sources support the events of the Bible, are Bible claims rational?I am sure your intentions are honourable but your understanding of the Bible is little more than Sunday School level.Please dont be offended by this, I am offering you genuine advice.May Jesus continue to bring you peace and joy.Best WishesBrian.

The following is something I originally posted at the "Independent Historical Corroboration for Biblical Events" topic.
EvC Forum: Independent Historical Corroboration for Biblical Events
----------From "Evolution Of The Earth", 2nd Edition, Robert H. Dott, Jr. & Roger L. Batten, 1976, McGraw-Hill
(I believe this book is currently in it's 6th edition; word has it that there are NOT substantial difference between the editions).From page 1 and 2:

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A volcanic event of still greater historical interest occurred in the eastern Mediterranean region about 1500 B.C., but its story has only recently been worked out. Santorin, or Thera, is a crescent-shaped island between Greece and Crete. It is a volcanic caldera, that is, a ring enclosing a submerged crater 400 meters deep -- a puny remnant of a once lofty mountain. (Crater Lake in Oregon is also a caldera, but it stands well above sea level.) Many small eruptions have occurred at Thera within historic times, but old lava flows and thick volcanic ash deposits tell of a more violent earlier history. Recent sampling by oceanographers of deep-sea sidiments in the eastern Mediterranean has revealed widespread buried ash layers that become thicker toward Thera, their obvious source. Carbon-14 isotope dating and archaeological remains indicate that the last very great eruptions occurred between 1450 and 1520 B.C. The material erupted was three or four times greater that from Krakatoa 3,400 years later.

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Thera's eruptions are of special interest not only for their geologic magnitude but even more so because of their historical implications. The earliest European civilization -- called Minoan -- began on Crete only 125 kilometers (75 miles) south of Thera, and a well-preserved Minoan settlement has recently been excavated on Thera itself. But the Cretan civilzation collapsed suddenly between 1400 and 1500 B.C. for reasons that have eluded archaeologists for generations.

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Greek archaeologist Spyridon Marinatos postulated way back in 1934 that and eruption of Thera may have ended the Minoan culture, and his hunch has recently been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt. Thera's cataclysmic eruptions would have generated tsunamis, waves perhaps as much as 100 meters high, which could reach norther Crete without warning in a mere 20 minutes. As around Krakatoa, such waves would do severe damage, and the Minoan capital of Knossos is known to have been virtually leveled at about this time. Other palaces, as well as temples, roads, and viaducts on the island, also were destroyed. Prevailing winds blew great volumes of ash southeastward. Most of this ended up on the bottom of the Mediterranean, but a lot must have fallen on eastern Crete, where it would have raised havoc with cultivated fields. Poisonous gases also may gave blown as far as Crete.

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We have at last a logical explanation for the unusually sudden disappearance of a great culture, but that is not the whole story. Egyptian writings record the cessation of imports of Cretan cedar and of oil needed for preparing mummies duting the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt, which lo and behold would place it about 1500 B.C.! Those same writings tell of a period of floods and darkness when the "sun appeared in the sky like the moon." Could Thera, then, have caused the famous days of darkness of the Old Testament? And could the ebb of its tsunamis possibly explain the parting of the waters in the "Sea of Reeds" in northeastern Egypt to allow the Jewish Exodus? Could Thera also have inspired stories of the sinking of mythical Atlantis? Some scholars think so.

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Moose

I take no offence, I am wrong alot i know, I have lately realized that I am giving cause to the "christians are idiots" theory. I'm attempting now to ask questions instead of blasting my mouth.------------------
saved by grace