|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Mary in the Roman Catholic Church - intercession or idolatry? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Faith, I think that we should look at this another way. You say:
Faith writes: We could say that a few million Protestants who think that a prayer hankie sent to them through the mail and placed on a sick person will heal that sick person is not also idolatry? http://www.hosanna.com.au/test/test2.htm A few million Catholics simultaneously asking a mere human being now in heaven to intercede for them is putting her in the place of God. Only God is capable of that. She can't hear them and if she could she couldn't answer them.hosanna.com writes:
Of course, this is one of those unknown Pastors on the internet. As Pastor Lorraine prayed for me, a growth has been taken away, an ulcer in my stomach has been healed miraculously, my leg lengthened, my back healed, and a severe pain in the groin was cured. Also, the cramp in my fingers and feet has been healed. I say that we let the Catholic/Protestant debate end! There are no winners. Now...about that whole mediation/intercession thing. If I ask another Christian to pray for me, are they not mediating? Are they not interceding? Am I aware that they are mere humans? Why do I need them to pray for me? Why can't I just pray for myself?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Protestants have their own errors, but they aren't institutionalized, they don't represent Protestantism as such, they are just individual false or fraudulent "ministries." The Catholic errors on the other hand are institutionalized.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-13-2005 02:44 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trixie Member (Idle past 3727 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
From my point of view, Brian,there is no right way. There are many right ways. All I'm saying is that my chosen way isn't wrong because someone mistakenly thinks that I indulge in "Mariolatry".
How many times are we asked in church, either Protestant or RC to pray for others,to pray for the sick? Can we say that our minister/priest/pastor/vicar/whatever is guilty of idolatry by asking us to do that? Is he holding us up as divine by asking us this? Is he holding us up as equal to God? As an aside, one of the things said in Mass is "I confess, to Almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do and I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virin, all the angels and saints and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God". We ask our fellow church members to pray for us. Hey, I worship my fellow parishoners!! At least, according to Faith, I do. Faith is perfectly free to find her own way to God, but this can be accomplished without the necessity of condemning the vast majority of humanity that don't believe in the exact same way that she does. If she's right about this, Heaven is going to be a very empty place.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Brian writes: Is it any wonder that there are so many athiests when the believers make things up about each other's faith just to try and get one over on them? The amount of athiests who believe nothing would I imagine be relatively few. Athiests believe in something - just not God.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes:
That might make it a quaint traditional practice, perhaps even a practice that could not possibly work. But it isn't at all obvious why that would make it idolatry. And she's a mere human being. You are expecting her to hear these requests for her to intercede with God from millions upon millions of Catholics day in and day out. I seem to recall that evangelical denominations have their own quaint traditional practices, although perhaps not as many as the RCC. (I don't want to pursue this, however, as it is OT).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 633 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
One thing I have noticed is that SOME groups have a tendancy to tell other groups what they 'actually' believe. The ones that are claiming that Roman Catholics are engaging in 'Idolatry' because they are 'worshipping Mary' seem very intent on telling Roman Catholics what they believe... even though that is not what the Roman Catholics say they believe.
These are the same people who tell the Jews all about the Jewish concept of the Messiah too. n edit.. one more comment If I am going to figure out what a religion believes, I will ask the people who practice that religion, not a believer of another religion who is trying to 'discredit' the first religion, in an effort to 'prove' their religious beliefs correct. This message has been edited by ramoss, 10-11-2005 09:21 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-13-2005 02:44 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-13-2005 02:45 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Brian writes: One little problem, Faith is not a Christian. An assertion which no doubt you cannot back up. But it does raise the interesting question: what is a Christian? It could be Brand X(a) debating Brand X(b) arises out of a conviction from Brand X(a) that Brand X(b) is not really able to wash whiter than white - despite what the advertising says. Close but no cigar so to speak?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-17-2005 09:02 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Ramoss writes: If I am going to figure out what a religion believes, I will ask the people who practice that religion, not a believer of another religion who is trying to 'discredit' the first religion, in an effort to 'prove' their religious beliefs correct. This would seem to be a reasonable approach. But there are problems with it. Asking National Socialism whether genocide was genocide would have resulted in an answer in the negative "Ridding the world of vermin" would likely be the answer received. Does this mean National Socialism was objectively about vermin eradication. Don't read into the analogy as me comparing RC with NS. I don't mean it so. But it illustrates the problems of dealing internally with a particular belief system
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
iano writes: An assertion which no doubt you cannot back up.
Brian writes: Is that what your crystal ball tells you? I thought as much
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-17-2005 09:02 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Brian writes: Well, you claim I cannot back it up, let us see your proof that I cannot back it up. I humbly withdraw my unfounded assertion. Now I'd ask you if you would like to substantiate your own unsubstantiated assertion. No probs if you prefer not to. But at least we can all bracket it as "unsubstantiated assertion despite request to do so" and consider its worth in that light.. On second thoughts leave it. I'm starting to sound like CK. And it's not that I don't make unfounded assertion either... This message has been edited by iano, 11-Oct-2005 03:47 PM
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024