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Author Topic:   Why is evolutions primary mechanism mutation ?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 74 of 141 (251013)
10-11-2005 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Springer
10-10-2005 9:11 PM


Re: language comparison invalid
The problem with using the example of language evolution ...
Are numerous, not least of which is that the idea of "language evolution" first came from biological evolution, so you are using an analogy of biology into language for an analogy of language back into biology, complete with all the problems that language has that do not fit the original analogy.
But you also have the main problem with language that you don't have with biological evolution -- and should have if ID were anywhere near a valid concept -- the fact that words can jump lineages because they are better.
a non-flying mammal to a bat precursor
is a flying squirrel by another name. or a flying frog.
it is conceptually impossible to visualize
Only for those with limited imaginations.
Enjoy.
This message has been edited by RAZD, 10*11*2005 11:35 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Springer, posted 10-10-2005 9:11 PM Springer has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Gary, posted 10-12-2005 10:05 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 76 of 141 (251209)
10-12-2005 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Gary
10-12-2005 10:05 AM


Re: language comparison invalid
but the evolution of language still has very strong similarities to the evolution of living things.
That is where the analogy from evolution to language helps inform the study of language.
My point was that you cannot use this analogy and the result from it in language study to then return to evolution and claim that it informs the study of evolution: that is a causal fallacy of wrong direction (like saying that cancer causes smoking).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Gary, posted 10-12-2005 10:05 AM Gary has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by JavaMan, posted 12-08-2005 8:31 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 128 of 141 (267292)
12-09-2005 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by JavaMan
12-08-2005 8:31 AM


Re: language comparison invalid
but the claim was that because of the way language developed differently from evolution that evolution was wrong ... that is what is invalid about the argument. They aren't reciprocal.
You can use an analogy - {a} is like {b} - but don't think that the failures of the analogy to fully explain {a} apply to {b}, just that the analogy breaks down.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by JavaMan, posted 12-08-2005 8:31 AM JavaMan has not replied

  
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