Faith by Definition

I'm glad you bumped this.If faith is defined as "belief, in spite of the evidence", and God demands faith, then what does that mean for the Christians who state that they came to or maintain their beliefs because they have found naturalistic explanations of the world unconvincing?

It means that they are on a wobbly chair. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things notseen.It is not an excuse to ignore things that are plainly seen. IMHO.

Anyone having faith in this sense could be categorized as insane. People have faith because they think, however erroneously, that they have good reasons for their "faith."

To quote Mark Twain, "faith is believing what you know ain't so."

This thread got me thinking.We have a word "faithful" which is surely related to "faith".Suppose my friend and I had started on a project. Unfortunately my friend died. By continuing with that project, I would be faithful to my friend. It does not require that I believe he is alive or in heaven. My faithfulness would be in my continued work on that project we started together.Could it be that we have the meaning of "faith" wrong? Maybe to have faith in Sherlock Holmes, is to follow his principles of evidence, and it doesn't matter that he was a fictional character. Maybe we could have faith in the invisible pink unicorn, if only the IPU had left us some principle to follow.Could it be that there is more faith among scientists in their principled investigation of the nature of the world, than there is among those who blindly believe in the literal truth of some ancient stories?

Hey nwr,With all due respect... what you're saying seems totally backwards to me. You can't be wrong about faith. Faith is a behavior, an internal state, a reality.Maybe you can ask if we're using the word "faith" to mean something that doesn't fit with previous or alternate definitions. But to say that we misunderstand faith itself... that has nothing to do with words, but rather how we conceptualize what it is we do.Are you suggesting that faith, in the manner described here, doesn't exist? Or are you just suggesting that the label we have applied to an existing behavior or concept is the wrong one?Maybe you're trying to be poetic or artistic, and I'm totally missing it. But ...Ben

I'm wondering whether the usage of the word has changed over time, and hoping that someone more familiar with the languages and culture of the time can tell us what it meant to the early Christians.

In my reading of older texts, I have sometimes gotten the impression that "faith" did not mean a belief in God's existence (which was considered self-evident) but a belief in God's mercy. Technically, in the RCC, I think this particular belief is called "hope," (as in faith, hope, and charity)but I think the word faith was often used in its stead.But I have no examples from texts at the moment to illustrate this.

To me, "believe" is about what's in your mind, "faith" is about what's in your soul.

I make no distinction between mind and soul.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

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I make no distinction between mind and soul.

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No surprise, that should be the case within your life time.

Good point, NWR...but I'm quite certain that my Faith is strong! I would agree, however, that many empiricists are more tenacious than the majority of religious folk.

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Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

I suppose I see it in the following way.Faith can be pictured as a highway between myself and God. God establishes that highway. And what he sends down that highway is belief in him, forgiveness etc. Or should I say, the ability to believe in who he is and what he says and to know I am forgiven. It is also the means by which I communicate with him. It is less that I have faith or belief in God and more that I know he exists because I have 'seen' him establish this highway and have experience of receiving goods sent along it. But whilst the flow of goods in either direction can wane (or seem to) and the highway itself doesn't appear to be as clear as it could be, my knowing doesn't alter.Once I know, I know forever. Like knowing 1+1=2 no matter what happens. Which is why I am always curious about people who say they have lost their faith. That may happen but can that mean losing your knowledge of Gods existance? How can one know God exists then unknow it?Maybe I am fortunate in that the evidence was so compelling that I can think of nothing short of mind meltdown which would alter that fact. Bring on the lions...{abe}So what I understand by 'strong faith/belief' is that the personal relationship (for that is what it is ultimately about) between a person and God is running on all cylinders. And vice versaThis message has been edited by iano, 11-Feb-2006 12:33 AM

Faith was how I first approached Jesus. I accepted him by faith.But after I felt what I belive to be the Holy Spirit, I feel I now believe in Jesus, and have faith that God will do what he promised.

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Acts 1
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

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Says there after experiencing the Holy Spirit you will be a witness. Sounds like a step beyond faith to me, and that is what it feels like to me.Good subject Phat!