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Author Topic:   Comparing the Evolution of Language and Biological Evolution
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 34 (251709)
10-14-2005 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tusko
10-13-2005 6:30 PM


Interesting presentation Tusko,
there is one place where the analogy breaks down and that is horizontal transfer.
horizontal transfer of some DNA between bacteria is observed, but this has not been observed in more complex organisms
horizontal transfer of words\concepts though can be see in all languages where there is some interaction between the languages
perhaps this is more like {incipient speciaztion \ ring species with hybreds}: all languages can interbreed but usually choose not to, and the closer the languages the more likely the interbreeding.
{abe}This gets into pidgins and creoles as mentioned by Parasomnium{/abe}
This message has been edited by RAZD, 10*14*2005 10:23 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tusko, posted 10-13-2005 6:30 PM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Tusko, posted 10-14-2005 10:35 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 34 (251738)
10-14-2005 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tusko
10-14-2005 10:35 AM


in biology you cannot have a feature from one species be transfered to another by evolution - the eye of the octopus transfered to a human for instance.
in language you can have a word transfered from one language to another, adopted whole and with the same definition (albeit with a likely different pronounciation)
this is a link between different branches, a splice.
this does not mean that the analogy is totally worthless, just that it does have some limits that also need to be recognized.
I've discussed this elsewhere, most recently at
EvC Forum: Why is evolutions primary mechanism mutation ?
{abe}
I would also say that natural selection would chose the {words\phrases} that best describe the idea with clarity and minimal confusion
This message has been edited by RAZD, 10*14*2005 11:32 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tusko, posted 10-14-2005 10:35 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Tusko, posted 10-14-2005 11:45 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 21 of 34 (251788)
10-14-2005 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tusko
10-14-2005 11:45 AM


I'm just wanting to keep running and running until I've totally run out of road!
no probs.
besides, I though elephants made their own roads ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tusko, posted 10-14-2005 11:45 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 5:40 AM RAZD has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 34 (251940)
10-15-2005 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tusko
10-15-2005 6:16 AM


Re: Recap:
another thing you might consider would be the time-scale of language evolution.
for instance you could consider each idiolect to be regenerated each morning incorporating mutations from the previous day plus subconcious {copy errors?\changes?} during the night - an asexual reproduction
those idiolects 'living' in high input areas {international radio\tv toxic lands} would be more susceptable to mutation expression (LOL) than others.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 6:16 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 11:27 AM RAZD has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 30 of 34 (252075)
10-15-2005 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ohnhai
10-15-2005 10:09 PM


Re: Recap:
After all language does have a je ne sais quoi when it comes to borrowing bits of other languages.
Did you de facto gestalt that or is this just chutzpa?
This message has been edited by RAZD, 10*15*2005 11:14 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ohnhai, posted 10-15-2005 10:09 PM ohnhai has not replied

  
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