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Author Topic:   Sola Scriptura? Is it actually in the Scriptures?
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 1 of 106 (252041)
10-15-2005 6:51 PM


Could someone show me in the Scriptures where it says the Scriptures are the only source for knowing about God?

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not asking for Scriptures which authenticate the validity of their source. I'm also not asking for passages of Scripture which state the value of the Scriptures. I'm simply asking for a passage of Scripture which actually specifically says that one can only trust the Scriptures themselves.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 10-15-2005 10:42 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded
 Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 10-15-2005 10:48 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded
 Message 36 by truthlover, posted 10-20-2005 11:17 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has not yet responded
 Message 90 by Brian, posted 10-27-2005 3:36 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

    
AdminBen
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Message 2 of 106 (252063)
10-15-2005 10:18 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 106 (252069)
10-15-2005 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-15-2005 6:51 PM


Well, if Scripture is mentioned in the Bible it's not refering to "The Bible". The Bible did not exist until hundreds of years after the contents of the Bible, particularly the NT, were written.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-15-2005 6:51 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 15 days)
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 4 of 106 (252071)
10-15-2005 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-15-2005 6:51 PM


Besides, isn't it a bit problematic when a source makes its own claims of reliability?


"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-15-2005 6:51 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-16-2005 12:45 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 5 of 106 (252091)
10-16-2005 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
10-15-2005 10:48 PM


I think you might be misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not arguing about whether the Scriptures or true or not. I'm noting what the Scriptures claim about themselves.

For example, this passage comes to mind...

NIV writes:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

See what I mean?

The Scripture make many claims about themselves -- yet they never seem to say, as far as I'm able to determine, that the Scriptures themsleves are the only source by which one can understand and know God.

I find it ironic that the bulwark of the Sola Scriptura theology doesn't actually seem to have rock solid Scriptural "proof text" to back it up.

Even in the case of this passage:

NIV writes:

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

A common translation of this by some appears to be that the Scriptures will never pass away -- but I don't think that's what this passage is saying.

This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 10-16-2005 12:13 PM


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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Chiroptera, posted 10-16-2005 10:28 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

    
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 6 of 106 (252092)
10-16-2005 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
10-15-2005 10:42 PM


But I'm not talking about the Bible. I'm talking about what the Scriptures claim about themselves.

Admittedly there are different canons from different Christian perspectives -- Catholic, Orthodox, High-Anglican, Protestant, Evangelical, etc. Each scope of the Christian may have their own view on what is considered correct and acceptable Scriptures to include in the canon.

However, whether the protestant evangelical Scriptural canons are correct or incorrect is not important for this discussion.

What the protestant evangelical Scriptures claim about themselves, however, is.

I'm not here to debate canons. I'm here to ask if anyone can point me to a verse within the traditionally protestant evangelical canons which explicitly claim that the Scriptures are the only souce for knowing God?

I may be wrong. Maybe I just haven't seen one passage of Scripture that can actually hold to this claim yet.

Do you know of any?


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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1537 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 7 of 106 (252138)
10-16-2005 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-16-2005 12:58 AM


quote:
I'm here to ask if anyone can point me to a verse within the traditionally protestant evangelical canons which explicitly claim that the Scriptures are the only souce for knowing God?

There isn't one.


"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 15 days)
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 8 of 106 (252145)
10-16-2005 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-16-2005 12:45 AM


I understand what you are asking, Mr. X. I wish I had thought of that question myself! If it turns out that no one can answer the question, I think I'll use it myself someday.


"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-16-2005 12:45 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

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Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 9 of 106 (252162)
10-16-2005 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by purpledawn
10-16-2005 9:53 AM


That's what I think too. :)

This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 10-16-2005 12:08 PM


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Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 10 of 106 (252164)
10-16-2005 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Chiroptera
10-16-2005 10:28 AM


It is an interesting question, isn't it?

I guess I'll wait and see what others have to offer.


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Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 11 of 106 (252320)
10-17-2005 1:25 AM


bump.
No one's going to tackle this one? :confused:

Come one guys -- Sola Scriptura? Surely it must be in the Scriptures?

By the way, I'm not mocking anyone's faith. I'm just very surprised that no one actually came to defend this.

I guess I'll take a look myself and see if I can find any verses which could be seen in this light.

*le sigh*


Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by nwr, posted 10-17-2005 1:35 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded
 Message 16 by purpledawn, posted 10-17-2005 6:27 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded
 Message 20 by iano, posted 10-19-2005 10:05 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has not yet responded
 Message 21 by DorfMan, posted 10-19-2005 11:31 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 12 of 106 (252321)
10-17-2005 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-17-2005 1:25 AM


Re: bump.
Come one guys -- Sola Scriptura? Surely it must be in the Scriptures?

I tried Google and wikipedia. I didn't find anything pointing to a scriptural basis. Perhaps I was careless and overlooked something.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:25 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:42 PM nwr has responded

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 13 of 106 (252411)
10-17-2005 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nwr
10-17-2005 1:35 AM


Re: bump.
Hmmm...how about passages like this...

NIV writes:

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

These passages are the only ones I can find that even allude to the Sola Scriptura theology -- yet even these do not state that the Scriptures themselves are the only mean by which one can come to know God.

There is another one that I hear often...

NIV writes:

But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

But, yet again, this doesn't specifically state that the Scriptures are the sole means by which one can come to know God.

Most people I hear use this passage to prove that miracles do not happen anymore. I even question this interpretation -- because the passage seems to be talking about when a believer is joined with Christ, and seems to have nothing to do with miracles per se in our lifetimes.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 10-17-2005 3:06 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16241
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 14 of 106 (252420)
10-17-2005 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-17-2005 1:42 PM


Everything?
quote:
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us....

But "everything that was written in the past" isn't specifically restricted to the Bible either. Taken in the broadest sense, that verse seems to negate Sola Scriptura rather than supporting it.


People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:42 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has responded

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 15 of 106 (252430)
10-17-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-17-2005 1:42 PM


Re: bump.
quote:
Hmmm...how about passages like this...

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


I don't see that as specifically supporting sola scriptura.

It does seem to say that we should not accept Paul's writings on faith, but should test them by examining the scriptures (what were accepted as scriptures at that time).

quote:
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.


I don't see that as relevant to Sola Scriptura.

I suspect that Sola Scriptura is itself extra-scriptural. That is, it comes from the traditions of evangelical protestantism, rather than from scripture. I doubt that this would a problem. It is my impression that Sola Scriptura is intended to apply to core beliefs, such as the requirements for salvation. I don't see it as applying to the entirety of the evangelical tradition.


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