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Author Topic:   Sola Scriptura? Is it actually in the Scriptures?
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 12 of 106 (252321)
10-17-2005 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-17-2005 1:25 AM


Re: bump.
Come one guys -- Sola Scriptura? Surely it must be in the Scriptures?
I tried Google and wikipedia. I didn't find anything pointing to a scriptural basis. Perhaps I was careless and overlooked something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:25 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:42 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 15 of 106 (252430)
10-17-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
10-17-2005 1:42 PM


Re: bump.
quote:
Hmmm...how about passages like this...
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

I don't see that as specifically supporting sola scriptura.
It does seem to say that we should not accept Paul's writings on faith, but should test them by examining the scriptures (what were accepted as scriptures at that time).
quote:
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

I don't see that as relevant to Sola Scriptura.
I suspect that Sola Scriptura is itself extra-scriptural. That is, it comes from the traditions of evangelical protestantism, rather than from scripture. I doubt that this would a problem. It is my impression that Sola Scriptura is intended to apply to core beliefs, such as the requirements for salvation. I don't see it as applying to the entirety of the evangelical tradition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 10-17-2005 1:42 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 80 of 106 (255136)
10-27-2005 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by iano
10-27-2005 12:56 PM


Re: Use your head
Let me try my hand on this.
But what is not made clear here is whether righteousness is a consequence of good works or whether good works are a consequence of rightousness. I suggest that scripture indicates the latter.
There is something to be said for the idea that good works are a consequence of righteousness. But then we have "there is none righteous" so this might be an impossible requirement.
The usual argument is phrased in terms of faith vs. works. Those who emphasize faith would probably say that faith is the way toward righteousness. The "works" school would probably say that works is the way toward righteousness.
Let's try an analogy. No doubt you will say it is a bad analogy. All analogies look bad if you don't agree with the implication.
For my analogy, I want to consider the problem of obesity. Here, the basic principle is that if you eat too much and exercise too you will likely become obese.
The "faith" position would be to believe this principle. Believing it is all well and good, but you won't solve your obesity problem by merely believing the principle. That's analogous to "faith without works is dead".
You could instead go on a crash diet. A diet does usually result in the loss of weight. But many dieters, after losing some weight, go back to over-eating. And then they gain back all of the weight they lost, plus a little more. The diet method is analogous to the "works" position, and has the problems usually ascribed to that position.
The experts on weight control tell us that the real solution is a change in life style. You have to modify your lifestyle so that your normal way of behaving will usually involve more exercise and less eating than previously. If you occasionally go on an eating binge, that won't be very important, as long as you keep to your new lifestyle. For the effect of the eating binge will soon be corrected by the way you carry out your changed way of living.
So much for the analogy. My suggestion on the faith vs. works issue, is that the real solution is in a change of life style. You would need to develop a lifestyle such that doing good works becomes second nature to you. If you occasionally do something bad, or miss an opportunity to do a good deed, that will be largely corrected for by the way you carry out your changed way of living.
I suspect that when jar say the important thing is "trying", he is really talking about such a changed lifestyle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by iano, posted 10-27-2005 12:56 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 10-27-2005 2:18 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 91 of 106 (255159)
10-27-2005 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by iano
10-27-2005 2:18 PM


Re: Use your head
iano writes:
How about if someone came in and simply took your old lifestyle from you. Erased all the tendency to overeat, erased all the desire to overeat, who gave you the figure you always wanted - a perfect figure. Who did it all for you without you having to do a shred of work yourself.
Now THAT would be good news. And that's the gospel too.
It doesn't usually happen that way. The old lifestyle is hard to shake.
Sure, some people go through a conversion experience. But that's largely psychological, and the effect eventually wears off. The "born again" alcoholic goes back to drinking. The "born again" gambler goes back to gambling.
Some people are able to turn their lives around. But that involves a lot of hard work, and perhaps requires help from their friends. The "faith vs. works" arguments trivialize the difficulties, and reduce a very real problem to word play.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 10-27-2005 2:18 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by truthlover, posted 10-27-2005 4:59 PM nwr has not replied
 Message 97 by iano, posted 10-28-2005 7:04 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 99 of 106 (255337)
10-28-2005 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by iano
10-28-2005 7:04 AM


Re: Use your head
iano writes:
It happens exactly that way... To clarify. You, me and everyone else are made up of mortal/immortal bits. Body/spirit. The "new figure" applies only to the spirit - that's the bit that God is interested in saving. That is the bit which is declared righteous. The bit which forms who you are: NWR. You are, biblically, not your fingers or toes or brain. The body is but a vehicle in a time based world. Sin remains in the mortal body; Christian or otherwise.
If you are correct about this, then christian theology reduces to nonsense. For, according to you, God is only interested in the spirit part, and the spirit part is sinless. Thus salvation would not be necessary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by iano, posted 10-28-2005 7:04 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by iano, posted 10-28-2005 1:03 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 102 of 106 (255369)
10-28-2005 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by iano
10-28-2005 1:03 PM


Re: Use your head
iano writes:
As born, the body is going to die because of sin in it. The spirit is not going to die because it is eternal. But it being unrighteous means it will have its sin punished - Hell.
This still makes no sense.
If the sin is in the body, rather than the spirit, then the spirit is not unrighteous.
Did you know that a saved spirit gets a new body to reside in heaven with.
So the tradition says. Whether it makes sense is a different matter entirely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by iano, posted 10-28-2005 1:03 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by iano, posted 10-28-2005 10:34 PM nwr has not replied

  
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