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Author Topic:   Large round boulders on hilltops
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 57 (252384)
10-17-2005 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Christian
10-17-2005 11:43 AM


Lots of ways. Mostly through normal erosion events. Big rock break down into little rocks and little rocks to smaller rocks and those into sand.
If you wander up the coast aways to just above Ventura or into the Hollywood Hills, you can see it going on today.
Normal events and lots of time.
One thing to watch for is the local mud slides. You should be in season right about now. Examine the slides, what they look like, what they do. There you can see part of the process at work.
The other half happens less regularly. It's the uplift portion. I was out there during the 1971 Earthquake and while it was abrupt, it was also awe inspiring.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Christian, posted 10-17-2005 11:43 AM Christian has replied

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 17 of 57 (252432)
10-17-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by cavediver
10-17-2005 5:03 AM


That was not my question, though. He believed that a flood brought those rocks up that high. It's one thing for water to be able to move rocks around. It's another for it to levitate the rocks to very high altitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 10-17-2005 5:03 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
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Christian
Member (Idle past 6255 days)
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-16-2005


Message 18 of 57 (252437)
10-17-2005 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
10-16-2005 11:11 PM


Have you ever threw a stone into water and try to make it float?
Actually it looks like the hills are piles of these boulders. I don't think the water lifted the boulders to the tops of hills, although perhaps strong currants could do that, it seems more likely that the movement of the water piled them up to form the hills. This is all purely speculation on my part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 10-16-2005 11:11 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by coffee_addict, posted 10-17-2005 5:06 PM Christian has replied
 Message 22 by Coragyps, posted 10-17-2005 5:30 PM Christian has replied

  
Christian
Member (Idle past 6255 days)
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-16-2005


Message 19 of 57 (252439)
10-17-2005 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by coffee_addict
10-17-2005 4:12 PM


He believed that a flood brought those rocks up that high.
I happen to be a she.

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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 20 of 57 (252447)
10-17-2005 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Christian
10-17-2005 4:30 PM


here's some granite boulders similar to what (I think ) you're talking about.
http://teachit.acreekps.vic.edu.au/...2002/devilsmarbles.htm
I've seen these in person.. they are preety amazing... very smooth.
From what I remember rain falls, getts in ccracks in th rock and when the ice exapands bits of rock fall off.
THis is happening now and scientists can see the mechanisms involved.
myth busted?

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 Message 19 by Christian, posted 10-17-2005 4:30 PM Christian has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 21 of 57 (252449)
10-17-2005 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Christian
10-17-2005 4:26 PM


You didn't answer my question. Have you tried to make a rock float in water?
What I'm trying to get at is that water DO move things as dense as rocks around, but the potential energy of these rocks only decreases rather than increases.
Added by edit.
I've always thought christians were sexless
Added by edit again.
Look at my avatar. Over the summer, I climbed to the top of the continental divide at 12,500 feet. 7 days up and 7 days down. That picture was taken at the base of the climb... when I was still good looking... more or less. I looked like a reck by the time I got to the top.
Anyway, as you can see, I encountered lots of boulders on my journey upward. It took a lot of energy on my part to add such an increase in my potential energy by several thousand feet. It also took some intelligence and GPS guidance to climb up that high. Otherwise, my natural tendency would be to go downward and simply allow my potential energy to be converted into kinetic energy.
Same thing with the supposed flood. A flood of that magnitude would flatten everything out rather than piling a bunch of boulders together and increase their potential energy.
Just look at the recent flood in New Orleans. Instead of seeing houses and debris piling up into a really big hill, everything is distributed out relatively evenly because that is the most efficient way for nature to work.
Do you agree with what I said so far?
This message has been edited by Jacen, 10-17-2005 05:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Christian, posted 10-17-2005 4:26 PM Christian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-17-2005 8:04 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 37 by Christian, posted 10-18-2005 1:42 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 22 of 57 (252459)
10-17-2005 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Christian
10-17-2005 4:26 PM


Actually it looks like the hills are piles of these boulders.
Like the ones here?
Linky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Christian, posted 10-17-2005 4:26 PM Christian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Christian, posted 10-18-2005 1:44 AM Coragyps has replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 23 of 57 (252475)
10-17-2005 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Christian
10-17-2005 11:49 AM


I understand your desire to remain somewhat anonymous, however, without the slightest idea of where you are or what the geology is in your area, we are all left guessing. We really need to know how big the boulders are and what the formation looks like.
Are the boulders in some sort of sandy and/or cobble matrix? Are the boulders in a lithified (hardened) or unconsolidated matrix? Do the boulders occur only with other boulders like in Coragyps' photo?
There are many, many reasons why boulders can exist on tops of mountains. They can be the result of glacial/fluvial/alluvial/colluvial deposition, they can be pediment/landslide/debris flow deposits, or in situ erosion of igneous rocks (as pointed out by others).
Honestly, an attempt to explain your particular occurrence of boulders is a bit like trying to guess your name.
This message has been edited by roxrkool, 10-17-2005 06:59 PM

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 24 of 57 (252483)
10-17-2005 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by coffee_addict
10-17-2005 4:12 PM


I quite agree. Your comment just reminded me of the situation and it made me smile given my chosen avatar... It's a bizarre sight!
This message has been edited by cavediver, 10-17-2005 07:11 PM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 25 of 57 (252509)
10-17-2005 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by coffee_addict
10-17-2005 5:06 PM


i don't think she meant that water made them float, but that water made them round... note the use of the words TUMBLED. rocks can be pushed into places and then the area around them erode. it's not a stretch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by coffee_addict, posted 10-17-2005 5:06 PM coffee_addict has replied

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 26 of 57 (252523)
10-17-2005 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by macaroniandcheese
10-17-2005 8:04 PM


We're not talking about some flat hills on a prairie here. There are places on the Rockies where I was at that these really big boulders were hundreds of feet high. I really do think it's a stretch to think that water actually pushed these really big boulders that far uphill (several thousand feet up).
Again, we're not talking about just some regular boulders. We're talking about boulders as heavy as buildings in big cities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-17-2005 8:04 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-17-2005 9:24 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 29 by roxrkool, posted 10-17-2005 10:11 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 39 by Christian, posted 10-18-2005 1:51 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 57 (252528)
10-17-2005 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by coffee_addict
10-17-2005 9:16 PM


you might be, but i don't think she is.
and since she hasn't said where she lives, you have no idea what she's talking about. stop treating everyone around you like children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by coffee_addict, posted 10-17-2005 9:16 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 28 of 57 (252542)
10-17-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by macaroniandcheese
10-17-2005 9:24 PM


I'm not treating everyone like children. I am simply pointing out the fact that it's a bit of a stretch to think water placed big boulders into formations like what she described. I am also simply pointing out the fact that if we are going to use evidence for something like the great flood we have to use more evidence than just what we can see in our local area.
She said that the boulders in her area looked like they were put there by a flood. I pointed out that big boulders elsewhere, like the ones on the Rockies, would not agree with her flood premise.
This message has been edited by Jacen, 10-17-2005 10:13 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-17-2005 9:24 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 29 of 57 (252543)
10-17-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by coffee_addict
10-17-2005 9:16 PM


I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, Jacen. Could you elaborate a bit more? I'm not sure if you're referring to the boulders mentioned in the OP or your own experience.
And actually, brennakimi makes a valid point. Depending on the size of the boulders, water can move them around quite easily (glaciers can move even bigger boulders further). Spring flash floods and other larger floods, say One Hundred Year Floods, are common. Cement these flood deposits, uplift them, and they could certainly be found weathering on tops of mountains. No need to actually 'push' the boulders uphill. These deposits leave tell-tale signs, however.
Additionally, if you're seeing boulders as heavy as buildings in the city, you are most likely looking at in situ weathering of bedrock.
That's why it's important for Christian to tell us how these boulders occur, how big they are, etc. They could be in situ weathering of bedrock or boulders derived from a depositional process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by coffee_addict, posted 10-17-2005 9:16 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by coffee_addict, posted 10-17-2005 10:23 PM roxrkool has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 30 of 57 (252544)
10-17-2005 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by roxrkool
10-17-2005 10:11 PM


roxrkool writes:
I'm not sure if you're referring to the boulders mentioned in the OP or your own experience.
Both, actually. I fully realized that boulders do get moved around quite a bit by forces of nature. What I'm having trouble believing is a flood would actually move truck and building size boulders into nice and neat formations, sometimes one on top of another.
quote:
And actually, brennakimi makes a valid point. Depending on the size of the boulders, water can move them around quite easily (glaciers can move even bigger boulders further). Spring flash floods and other larger floods, say One Hundred Year Floods, are common. Cement these flood deposits, uplift them, and they could certainly be found weathering on tops of mountains. No need to actually 'push' the boulders uphill. These deposits leave tell-tale signs, however.
We're not talking about glaciers or hundred years floods. We're talkign about a flood that supposedly took place 40 days and 40 nights.
quote:
Additionally, if you're seeing boulders as heavy as buildings in the city, you are most likely looking at in situ weathering of bedrock.
No argument here.
quote:
That's why it's important for Christian to tell us how these boulders occur, how big they are, etc. They could be in situ weathering of bedrock or boulders derived from a depositional process.
Good luck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by roxrkool, posted 10-17-2005 10:11 PM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
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