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Author Topic:   Logic
mike the wiz
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Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 41 of 110 (253325)
10-20-2005 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Yaro
10-20-2005 10:36 AM


Make Yarown sometime
Thanks, they're a real headache to make.
I knew you'd do it, coz you had already got so far.

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 Message 39 by Yaro, posted 10-20-2005 10:36 AM Yaro has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 43 of 110 (253361)
10-20-2005 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nwr
10-20-2005 11:49 AM


Re: SHRAFF HELP
My answer would be that the opposite is a truism or tautology -- something that is always true just due to the nature of the wording.
Is this then, a tautology; If not, could you give me some simple examples. I think if I saw examples, I would know easily, for sure.
In order to get a good public health service, we need a competent man/woman incharge
Or is that begging the question?
I think I also confused a vacuous truth, with a tautology, aswell. In the sense that if brain eating monkeys lived in your skull, they'd eat your brain.
I'm trying to concentrate on the case of A never happening.
If A then B might be true, but since A never happens, it's a vacuous truth. Since there are no brain-eating monkeys despite the logic that they would eat your brain if they were true, then maybe I am thinking of too many ways to get "truth" with irrelevent premises.
Your example has the form of a contradiction, yet it is not a contradiction (as you explain).
That's ironic. I think I made a tautology, as it is true on my own terms/words.

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 Message 42 by nwr, posted 10-20-2005 11:49 AM nwr has replied

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 47 of 110 (253367)
10-20-2005 12:44 PM


My attempted tautologies
The new mayor will be male or female
True whatever the case.
The new hospital will be succesful or not
True whatever the case.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 48 of 110 (253368)
10-20-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by macaroniandcheese
10-20-2005 12:36 PM


Re: Logic can be moot itself
What is?

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 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-20-2005 12:58 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 51 of 110 (253375)
10-20-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by macaroniandcheese
10-20-2005 12:55 PM


Re: Logically my position is correct compared to Shraff's
"one can VERY easily be a buddhist and a christian, or anything else."
tautology!
I can do this because I'm on topic.
Seriously though, I'm hoping this doesn't become a religious-topic and get closed down, so I must appeal to the consequences of your post. Hopefully this can remain a topic about logic and learning more about it.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 52 of 110 (253378)
10-20-2005 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by macaroniandcheese
10-20-2005 12:58 PM


Re: Logic can be moot itself
Isn't that begging the question?
Example;
"It's true because I am right"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-20-2005 12:58 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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 Message 53 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-20-2005 1:07 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 54 of 110 (253384)
10-20-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by macaroniandcheese
10-20-2005 1:07 PM


Re: Logic can be moot itself
In response to Lam's angry young animal;
Begging the question is also known as petitio principii, and is related to the fallacy known as circular argument
BEgging the question
Footballers are rich. only a rich person would be a footballer
So footballer's are rich.
If I refer to A = B = A, then I suppose I saw this as circular, in the sense that
you are shot back and forth to the premise, despite proving them of themselves. So Lam
was wrong I was right. Hah!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-20-2005 1:07 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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 Message 56 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-20-2005 1:22 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 59 by nwr, posted 10-20-2005 2:46 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 69 by Parasomnium, posted 10-21-2005 4:01 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 60 of 110 (253438)
10-20-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by nwr
10-20-2005 2:46 PM


Re: Logic can be moot itself
I thought BTQ referred to circular reasoning in that;
A is true because of B
B is true because of A
So A is true because of B.
If you cut out The second premise, you can see that you might aswell just say A is true because of B, because A is true because of B. The conclusion is the premise.
So;
The bible is true because God says so.
God says so because his word is the truth
Therefore the bible is true because God says so.
Thanks for the input. Thanks for the input also, Brennakimi/
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-20-2005 02:59 PM

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Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 70 of 110 (253642)
10-21-2005 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Ben!
10-20-2005 11:14 PM


Re: Logic can be moot itself
I know/knew.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 71 of 110 (253647)
10-21-2005 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Parasomnium
10-21-2005 4:01 AM


Re: Begging the question
I know. A tautology doesn't have to be logical either, it can be grammatical, if you say the same thing twice.
If Lam had said, "I am the master of the universe, god almighty" and God is, in a manner of speaking, the master of the universe, then that's a grammatical tautology. You might know this already, you could have had previous knowledge of it.
It's a logical fallacy
It is?
That's like telling an armyman that "that's a gun" in his hand.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-21-2005 10:24 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Parasomnium, posted 10-21-2005 4:01 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 10:30 AM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 73 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 10:37 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 74 by Parasomnium, posted 10-21-2005 10:48 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 75 of 110 (253656)
10-21-2005 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Omnivorous
10-21-2005 10:37 AM


R U being facetious young animal?
I said "IF God is defined this way"
" I am creator of the universe, God almighty ". Does this satisfy you?
I hope these attampts to strain at a nat, don't make you swallow a camel.
I think the desire of the group, to teach, rather makes them miss the point/s I am trying to make.
We could think of many ways to say things twice. Not being able to come up with a perfect example on the spot, doesn't negate the fact that I am correct in describing a grammatical tautology. You do know this don't you?
I also notice you didn't mention my correct grammatical tautologies, which leads me to think that your motive is to correct me where I don't need correcting.
Forgive me being snappy, it gets a little irritating when people think an angry young animal doesn't know anything, because he needed help with one problem.

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 Message 73 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 10:37 AM Omnivorous has replied

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 Message 78 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 11:11 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 76 of 110 (253661)
10-21-2005 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Parasomnium
10-21-2005 10:48 AM


Re: Careful!
This just proves I have no business telling the armyman anything, doesn't it?
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-21-2005 10:59 AM

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 80 of 110 (253670)
10-21-2005 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Omnivorous
10-21-2005 11:11 AM


Re: R U being facetious young animal?
Fair enough. It just seems everyone is correcting my notes. I suppose they think I'm fair game, in that I lack overall-knowledge/education.
It's true, I lack knowledge, but I am atleast reasonably smart in atleast some areas, so it kind of irritates me when people are teaching me things I already know.
Forgive my angry young animal trying to break forth on your angry young vulnerable newbie-dino. I think I'm just in a bad mood today.

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 Message 78 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 11:11 AM Omnivorous has replied

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 Message 81 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 11:52 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 83 of 110 (253683)
10-21-2005 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Omnivorous
10-21-2005 11:52 AM


Re: R U being facetious young animal?
some folks think outside the box because they were never stuffed into one.
Lol. Thanks for sharing that. It's interesting that your employment didn't relate to the knowledge you gained. So feel free to share it here, and ignore my cranky mood.
It's just one of those days, you know, where the slightest thing annoys you for no apparent reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Omnivorous, posted 10-21-2005 11:52 AM Omnivorous has replied

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 95 of 110 (254905)
10-26-2005 1:03 PM


Riddle of the Pink Unicorn
(Another puzzle that can be solved using logic).
There are 4 Pink Unicorn (P.U.) churches in the country.
One in Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, and Nottingham.
Goal: To locate the church Joe is at, and the day.
Clues:
Joe, a member of the public, is in one of the 4 specified P.U. churches.
The Manchester P.U. church is closed on Thur - saturdays. (Open the rest of the days)
The Liverpool P.U. church is closed on week days. (open the rest of the days)
The Nottingham P.U. is closed mon - Thur.(open the rest of the days)
The Birmingham P.U. church is closed on Sundays.(open the rest of the days)
Joe will always prefer and therefore always choose to be in P.U. church on Wednesdays rather than Fridays and saturdays, he'll always choose Sundays rather than Mondays and Tuesdays and always choose Thursdays rather than Sundays and wednesdays.
Joe never attends P.U. church on Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays.
Rather than answering each poster everytime they have an answer; Here is the answer, highlight to see it;
Answer: Birmingham P.U., Thursday. Since Joe always will choose Thursdays over Wednesdays and Sundays, and only Birmingham P.U. church is open on thursdays... Pretty easy?

Replies to this message:
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