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Author | Topic: The 3 catch cries of uniformitarian geology are equally well explained by the Flood | |||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Umm, TB? If rivers formed canyons by eroding soft sediments, when did those sediments lithify into the rocks we see today and how did it happen? How did gorges form in soft sediments? Why do they follow structural patterns that form in fractured rocks?
quote: SOME strata form slowly, others do not. You are making a hasty generalization here.
quote: And the problem here is what? Do you really think that you are the first person to recognize this? What unimaginable hubris!!
quote: Lots of assertions, but I see virtually no data.
quote: This is laughable. How can you have a fresh water flood while the land is covered by a marine flood? I can see that we have had no influence on your enlightenment, TB. As much as we have tried to open your blinders, you continue to rant in unsupportable and unintelligible verses.
quote: What? How can erosional processes cause deposition? Your complete ignorance of geology is obscenely exposed by your statments. I'm beginning to worry about you, TB. This latest rant makes me wonder if you are okay.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Gene quote: Hear, hear. Well said for someone who hasn't done a day's worth of field work.
quote: Let me guess, you've never seen a bentonite bed...
quote: And those ecologies never bordered on one another and no rivers ever flowed through more than one of them. And there were no migrations across boundaries. Nonsense. According to many creationists, humans lived side by side with dinosaurs... why do we not see their fossils together?
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: And just what are these 'normal processes?' How does a sediment laying around at the surface suddenly become a rock? You never did address this issue before.
quote: Does it make sense for soft sediments to carry individual fractures for miles?
quote: Okay, so all of those jaded scientists out there never thought of this?
quote: Then the non-marine part was not a flood as you stated.
quote: No. I simply do not try to redefine terminology wherever I need to, as creationists are prone to do. In case you didn't notice, the deposition usually occurs in a place different from erosion. I point this out simply to show that you have no clue as to what your are talking about, and that all of the in-depth reading that you have done is gone to waste because you do not understand the most basic principles of science. How do you expect to be taken seriously?
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Hmm, more unsupported assertions. How about some data? And where are these problem beds for us?
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Well, first of all, you have to show what supplied the compressive forces and where the time came from for the chemical processes. If you have ever seen wet, soft sediments erode you might understand why the GC could never form. The incised sediments would simply flow to reform banks at an angle of repose consistent with a material having no cohesive strength.
quote: So, you are saying that the soft sediments were deposited, then eroded, all in one year; then the walls lithified, then the walls were fractured, then the fractures were eroded to form the side canyons. Pardon my incredulity, but this sounds more far-fetched than any evolution or abiogenesis scenario. You have to remember also that you don’t even have 4500 years to do this. There is no evidence of any such observed deposition and erosion for over thousands of years.
quote: Not at all. We accept that some processes are rapid and others are slow. You, on the other hand, must have virtually all unrealistically rapid processes or you start falling outside your biblical myth.
quote: You have ignored numerous fatal flaws, however. Thos have been enumerated frequently here on these pages.
quote:Again, incorrect. We do not disavow interpretation. However, we have abandoned the flood concept as of, oh, about 200 years ago. quote: Hmm, that’s convenient for you!
quote: Why do you limit yourself to river deltas for an appropriate land plan environment? Besides, do you know what a paleodelta looks like?
quote: Just what is that evidence? We have discussed that some sand laminations can occur quickly, but nothing else.
quote: Really? I think we have ample evidence at this point that you really are out of your depth on this subject.
quote:Then why do you discuss erosion, saying that it produces layers. It does not. Perhaps you assume too much, and trick yourself. And, by the way, don’t you know that assumptions are bad for you? quote: No, I don’t think so. But it does take a modicum of training and experience. Your words belie your ignorance of geological processes.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: But you won’t have thousands of feet of sediment. Because they have no cohesive strength, they will a flow toward the stream until an angle of repose is accomplished. I think you will find that such an angle would place the north ‘rim’ somewhere up around Escalante. Try cutting a canyon in wet cement sometime. You can’t do it. The process of flow will also disrupt the bedding such that your stratigraphic column is scrambled. Then you have to explain the presence of rock fragments farther down the stream channel and in the Gulf of California, etc.
quote: See above. Water saturated sediments will yield under an unbalanced load.
quote: Sure there is. Long periods of deposition, dewatering, lithification, followed by uplift and erosion.
quote: Well, we don’t have any record over the last 1000 years of human habitation of major changes in the topography. So you time scenario has to be reduced by at least that much.
quote: No, it was accepted a priori by creation era scientists. However, scientific investigation showed that this story defied the facts and it was abandoned. Now the question is, why is the a priori acceptance of evolution so much stronger than the a priori acceptance of creationism 200 years ago? The answer is that it isn’t. Modern acceptance of evolution is based on evidence.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Why didn't they say 'drying' then? {Fixed quote structure - AM} [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 12-05-2002]
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: The orientation of the beds is not material here. They are water saturated, soft, post flood sediments. They have no strength. So how do you get steep canyon walls? Your model is by nature a kindergarten model. On close inspection, it disproves itself.
quote: However, they did not make the mistake you do in extrapolating from some layers forming rapidly to all layers forming rapidly. They were actually more logical and scientific than you. You will note that they abandoned creationism. Why do you think that was?
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Nope. If this happened the walls would not be as near to the river course as they are. As I mentioned earlier the canyon rims would probably be scores of miles away.
quote: I just pointed out another problems above. If you tried reading my and others' posts, you would understand the arguments against your scenario.
quote: LOL! What minority are you talking about? And why do you have any problematic beds at all?
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Nope. You can make wild assertions all you want, but this will not make your wishes come true. In fact the soft sediments that you have eroded must have supported canyon walls even steeper than the present ones if you scenario were correct. I am so glad that you have revolutionized geomechanics, though. I am sure that we can do away with all of our modern safety rules for construction in unconsolidated materials.
quote: How so? Another unsupported assertion. You seem to be getting a bit desperate.
quote: So, you have degenerated to making arguments of personal incredulity. Well, the catastrophist that I am just can't believe that the entire geological record was laid down in a year. So there!
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