Evolution of the Soul

This is an example of why I don't post here very much any more. This posting is an example of the rudeness and arrogance that one is constantly exposed to from theists. I do not "feel" a soul in me. It is arrogant of you, Prophex, to make a blanket and false statement of that kind. Speak to what you think and feel, but do not presume to speak for me. You have no possible idea what goes on in any person's mind other then your own.A common, deceptive, and infuriatingly obtuse response by theists to the point I made above is to tell me that I really do feel my soul (or whatever mythic quality they are advocating) and that I would admit it if I were honest. I trust you won't try to make any such mind numbingly stupid assertion.I do expect you to withdraw your claim, quoted above, based on the absolute refutation of it by the fact that I do not feel a soul.

What a funny reason.

prophex is a teenager having growing pains. Don't take him as representative.

One gets tired of constantly butting one's head against unmovable, faith-based, fact-ignoring opinions. In this case, I have run several times into theists who made blanket claims about how people think or feel and refused to admit the simple fact that they cannot know the content of another person's mind when called on it.There are other reasons, of course, but they are nor pertinent here.Did you have anything to actually add?

I accept that as fact, and will take a softer tone with him, but I must stand by my point.Also, in my limited experience, the attitude he is displaying is representative. I have faced it several wearisome times on this board from several individuals.

I wasn't disagreeing with your general point. I think the moderators are giving prophex a little more latitude than usual because this is his thread and he is using it to try working through his own position.IMO prophex isn't really trying to persuade us. I think he is trying to persuade himself over his own doubts.

If somebody says, "Everyone has a soul," this is arrogance?What if I said, "Everyone has secret fears." Would that be arrogant?

To again quote the passage from Prophex's post that I took issue with... The claim, as you can see, is that all of "us", which I take to mean all people, "feel" the presence of a soul. Prophex does not know the content of anyone's mind other then his own. The arrogance stems from the idea inherent to the claim that all people must have the same "feel" that he does. I and many others do not.So, no, the claim that everyone has secret fears would not be arrogant. The claim that everyone must share YOUR secret fears would be.And this is just my opinion, but the claim that everyone has a soul is not arrogance, it is ignorance.

You are right--it is not arrogance.ABE: Neither is the comment that we all feel this or that.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 10-21-2005 08:38 PM

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"Turning out pigs for creationists makes me blue and blurry."--Brad McFall

Of course it is. The idea that your personal beliefs are so right, so good, that they cannot help but be universal is the height of arrogance. From where does Prophex gain authority to make claims about what I think or feel? He has no such authority and to presume that he does is arrogant. What else could one call it?It is also manifestly a false claim and the proof is simple. I do not "feel" a soul in myself in any way. Thus the claim is simply wrong. I invite you or Prophex to demonstrate otherwise.I also continue to await Prophex's defense or withdrawal of his claim. As I said, it is ignorance.

We all feel this way.You mean you didn't know?

I presume you are making a feeble attempt at humor. I have no such "feeling".I do not claim to be able to understand the theistic mindset, for instance, but I certainly acknowledge it's existence and it's vast difference from my own.I also note that you do not address any of the points I made. You just keep make unfounded, nonsensical assertions.

What I meant was that we all feel we are right--like the person you accuse of arrogance. Arrogance is a feeling of superiority to others. I do not detect that in the comments of the poster you criticize. I do detect a religious point of view, which might very well be mistaken, but to be mistaken is not to be arrogant.You might as well say that because one believes that everyone evolved from a common descent, that is arrogance.So you say you no longer post because the religionists are arrogant?I might say, "You religionists don't know what you are talking about. You want the truth? I'll give you the truth. Mankind is a product of a mindless universe. Life is an arbitrary, accidental affair. Your life has no objective meaning. My life has no objective meaning."What I've given you is the opposite message of the religionists. It also happens to be my serious belief.Neither is arrogant.

To be mistaken is not to be arrogant... that is correct, but it is not what I am talking about.What prohex did was make an assertion about what I (and in fact every one in the world) "feels" in the privacy of their own mind.Let's look at your counter examples: No, that is a statement about factual matters in the observable world, open to all. The difference, the reason this does not speak to my point, is that everyone can observe the world and learn facts about it. No one but me can know what I think or believe, contrary to Prophex's assertion concerning what I "feel". That is one reason. As I explained before, this exact point (this is not the first time I have encountered this particular flawed position) is one of my prime problems with the theistic. The arrogant assumption that everyone actually really agrees with them and feels the same way they do infuriates me. Good for you. I agree. However, again, you are telling the theist what YOU think, not making claims about what THEY think. If you were to say "Life is a meaningless accident and you know it as well as I do. You must. You just don't want to admit it," then you would have done what Prophex did and you would be guilty of the same hubris.No claim about the nature of humanity, or the afterlife, or the facts of the natural world is arrogant. Any person making the claim that I must think, feel or believe as the do is arrogant. They are feeling so confident in the rightness of their mindset that other simply must, in reality, agree with them.

Charlie! New Topic, New Questions! This is a good topic! Let me take a go at answering some of the thread in summation: Yet we as Christians should have respect for and love for science minded people as much as any others. As you know, science deals in observable and verifiable facts.(as best as we can define) To say that science is worthless is an inconclusive statement. Science was not worthless in finding a cure for smallpox. Science is, in fact, useful for a variety of the lifestyles that we as humans have made for ourselves. Science has not found God. Depends on what you believe. I was classically taught that I have a Body,(Bones, Flesh, Blood,Nerves) I am a Soul,(Mind, Will, and Emotions) and I commune in Spirit.(Either the Holy Communion or a tie-in with the other)As for that soul..My mind is what I think and imagine.
My Will is what I want. My passion. My Belief
My Emotions are what I feel.The soul is the link between Body and Spirit. Did they? Emotions have remained virtually unchanged through human history, IMHO. Thoughts have evolved in a sense...although not in the grand scheme of things.
Likewise, our wills have always been similar with earlier human prototypes. Lets get some Biblical definitions down for the record, here.

There is a difference between the earth and the world. Note this scrip: Psalms 24:1-- Earth in most Hebrew contexts means terra firma or the physical ground.

The world, by contrast, is the cosmos...the bling bling...the evolved ways of human interaction and the collective place that we haver made for ourselves.

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Thus, in the context of philosophy, science is un necessary for eternal life.

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CP writes:

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Or are our souls part of an interconnection due to the power and grace of a divine being?

I think that you have figured out a belief paradigm, Charlie! It seems to make sense to me...We think similarly.