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Author Topic:   God's Prophecies: what is behind them?
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 77 (212756)
05-31-2005 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
05-31-2005 12:08 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
I'm implying that you have misread and perverted Jesus teachings. Jesus had no use for exclusion or bigotry.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 77 (212759)
05-31-2005 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
05-31-2005 12:11 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
I'm implying that you have misread and perverted Jesus teachings. Jesus had no use for exclusion or bigotry.

I'm afraid we're moving off topic here, so I won't get into it further except to say that you're blatantly ignoring the verses I've cited which prove that his salvation was exclusively through Jesus himself.


This message is a reply to:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 77 (212792)
05-31-2005 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
05-31-2005 12:25 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Tell me again, Buz, what do God prophesize about Muslims? And would we go to hell?
This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 77 (212806)
05-31-2005 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Andya Primanda
05-31-2005 8:18 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Hi Andya. To keep within the op topic, I don't think God has predetermined anyone to go to hell. It is his will that "none should perish." II Peter 3:9 To digress further on this would be off topic.


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw
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Regless
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 77 (254988)
10-27-2005 2:20 AM


Hmmm. I know God actually does force things sometimes. To give an example he originally intended Adam to and Eve to become plentiful and populate the earth. When they disobeyed him and caused themselves to become mortal, his purpose didn't change, but how he would accomplish it would. Another example is the Tower of babel. Human have limitless potential, and they were becoming so organized they actually might've throw off his timeline, so he divided them and "made starge their speach." That's the idea anyway.

As for his ability to see the future, I was thinking this might be increadable foresight. For example he warned isreal after the exodus not to give themselves a king. It wasn't a bad idea on it's own, except humans can and frequently do become corrupt. Isreal, had some very good kings, but most of them were bad and turned their back on god. it'd be kinda like warning my child not to play with sharp objects. There's nothing really wrong with the idea except that kids are clumsy. Oh, and Buzzsaw. I noticed in one of your posts you mentioned Jehovah. Are you a Witness?


  
Legend
Member (Idle past 3084 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 66 of 77 (255121)
10-27-2005 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Buzsaw
05-30-2005 10:55 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Hi Buzz,

In Matt 25:31-46 you're interpreting Jesus's reference to 'brethren' as refering to Christians. I think this is wrong, for two reasons.

1) Jesus refers to anyone who's doing God's will as 'brethren' (Mar 3:33-34) not just disciples or Christians. God's will is -as Jesus repeatedly said- 'Love God and love your neighbour as yourself', *not* 'believe in Jesus'.

2) As Matt 25:31-46 is about the Final Judgement, the term 'nations' would imply everyone who has ever lived, both before and after Jesus.

In this context, 'brethren' couldn't possibly refer to Christians. It makes no sense to judge people who lived B.C on how they treated Christians, as Christians weren't around then. The only plausible meaning for 'brethren' would be 'fellow men'.

As for Jesus saying that the only way to heaven is through him, this is nothing but affirming his role as the Judge, which is emphatically confirmed in John 5:22.

In short: it doesn't matter what you believe, Jesus will judge you on how you behave.


"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
This message is a reply to:
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Regless
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 77 (255196)
10-27-2005 6:35 PM


"Truely this means everlasting life, yor taking in knowledge of the one true god andthe one whom he sent forth Jesus Christ."

I believe how you behave is peobably the most important too, but the way I see it, how many people have slandered God simply because they don't know any better. The Cross is an idol and an insult to Jesus, but it's in churches everywhere. This is why I worry that maybe just being good isn't aenough.


  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4627 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 68 of 77 (255582)
10-30-2005 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by AdminPhat
05-25-2005 7:28 AM


Re: How do Prophecies work?
AdminPhat is correct Brian.

Please post a new potential thread for this question -- speaking as a regular poster of course, and not anyone with admin or mod status.

:)

This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 10-30-2005 01:58 AM


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Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4627 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 69 of 77 (255735)
10-31-2005 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
05-30-2005 1:14 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
I have to admit that I don't read Matthew 25:31-46 in exactly the same way jar. I can see your point about non-believers being included in with the sheep -- because they beleived in Christ by their actions.

But, on the other hand, I think you take too much liberalities with the text when presenting the goats as being almost exclusively Christian. I do see that Christians can be included in that group, and some most certainly will be. But I don't see it to the level you are stressing.

There are other passages of Scripture which allude to what you are saying, such as the one in which a tree is known by its fruit:

NIV writes:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.

Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

The context of this passage too seems to be one of final judgment "on that day".

I will note that the 'evildoers' never apparently offered to lift a finger to help others. They seemed to be resting secure in the "knowledge" that they were saved and possibly just judging others that they thought were not saved.

However, even in this passage, the majority are not implied. Rather what seems to be the central focus is that of judging others harshly -- and that a Christian should not do this.

I suspect that, in the end, many athiests might be surprised to be greeting their heavenly father in heaven via the son they knew by what they did. I also suspect that some Christians will be dissapointed in their negative eternal fate.

But I don't think this is the majority rule in either case.

If rough percentages are allowed by virtue of parables, then a 50/50 chance might be determined using parables related to the virgins using their oil unwisely.

But, then again, perhaps the fall of the angels themselves gives some indication too -- implying a third of humanity in general will fall as well.

It's not in the Scriptures, but I've thought for some time now that those of us who make it to heaven throughout all human history will probably equal the same amount as the number of angels that fell; ie., we're perhaps the replacement angels so to speak.

I don't know exactly how it will all work out in the end. But I'm fairly sure that God does.


This message is a reply to:
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iano
Member (Idle past 19 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 70 of 77 (256016)
11-01-2005 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Buzsaw
05-31-2005 9:15 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Delete all: incorrect statement. Thank Google :)

This message has been edited by iano, 01-Nov-2005 04:34 PM


This message is a reply to:
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mick
Member (Idle past 3064 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 71 of 77 (276241)
01-05-2006 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Asteragros
05-23-2005 11:08 AM


Asteragros writes:

When God pronounces a prophecy

God does not pronounce prophecies. God's activities are interpreted by human beings. "What is behind God's prophecies" is the human imagination. God does not exist (but his prophecies do).

This was seen pretty clearly over the Christmas period with those poor miners killed in Virginia.

I heard on my radio, listening to BBC news, the joyous celebrations of the Christian community who had prayed their hardest and discovered that 12 of 13 miners was still alive. The Church bells were ringing and the families were praising the Lord. I heard various local notables explaining that God had saved their loved ones.

Then I heard that all of the miners were actually dead. People stopped mentioning God then. The bells stopped.

The good-will of God clearly existed only in the imagination of those poor miners' families.

The same goes for God's prophecies. They are DEFINITELY worth celebrating if they bring good news to a community, but they get shifted under the carpet when things go wrong.

Mick.

in edit: Given what Americans are like, they didn't blame God for the death of 13 miners, but started threatening law suits. A quick switch from the religious to the secular, mediated by TV...

This message has been edited by mick, 01-05-2006 10:27 PM


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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 4160 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 72 of 77 (291625)
03-02-2006 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
05-31-2005 12:11 AM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Did you know that Jesus Himself was a Bigot? He was a bigot against Hypocrites,sinners and the pharisees. Though He was a bigot, He was hanging around them all the time. Why? Because, He loved them all.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 05-31-2005 12:11 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 03-02-2006 9:20 PM inkorrekt has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 77 (291628)
03-02-2006 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by inkorrekt
03-02-2006 9:10 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Did you know that Jesus Himself was a Bigot? He was a bigot against Hypocrites,sinners and the pharisees.

He certainly spoke out against hypocrits and if he were here today he'd do the same, speaking out against those Christians that pervert his message, like those that show up on the 700 Club. Much of Christianity today is simply a perversion of his message, just as the Sadducees and Pharisees perverted Jesus' religion, Judaism.

He would certainly speak out against Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, Wyatt, Scott, Hovind, Bakker, Roberts, Tilton and Swaggart. Likely he'd embrace those like Bishop Sprong though.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by inkorrekt, posted 03-02-2006 9:10 PM inkorrekt has responded

Replies to this message:
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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 4160 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 74 of 77 (291629)
03-02-2006 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
05-30-2005 1:01 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
WOW!!!!! I love those tree huggers. God does too. I feel sorry for the tree huggers who are lost in their own fantasy world of Utopia. .

Ezekiel 37 is now under fulfillment. Russia weants to see the USA destroyed. But, it does not want to do directly. This is one reason why it is supporting Iran's nuclear weapons program. The other reason is Money. Iran has stated that Holocast never occured and ISreal needed to be wiped out of the world map. IRan is getting ready for a nuclear weapon and it is almost ready. When finished, it will attack Isreal. Isreal is preparing for a preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear arsenal for its own survival. This will happen anytime. When this happens, Iran will attack USA. USA will return the strike with nuclear weapons. This is from Isreal's intelligence.

God's wrath is coming upon us. Why? Though we have been supporting Isreal in everyway, we forced Israel to give up part of their promised land(Gaza strip, western bank and Golan Heights). Who are we to break God's covenant to His own people? Therefore, God's wrath is coming upon us.


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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 4160 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 75 of 77 (291910)
03-03-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
03-02-2006 9:20 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
Jar, you are right about the TV evangelists. But you are wrong about Dr. Dobson. Did you know that he quit his Prestigious faculty position to serve the family? He has written so many best sellers. You will not believe that he has not taken any of the royalty. It all goes to Focus on the family. He does not live in a mansion like Tilton, Swaggart, Baker, Crouch etc.. He lives in a modest condominium. Please do not include him in the list of hypocrites. In fact about Dobson, God will say, " You are a good and faithful servant"
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