Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   God's Prophecies: what is behind them?
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 16 of 77 (212107)
05-28-2005 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Asteragros
05-23-2005 11:08 AM


Asteragros writes:
The problem is summarized with the following question.
When God pronounces a prophecy, He:
1) "Sees" the future, without compelling the happenings to fit the prophetic model (highlighting his foreseeing capability) or..
2) He controls and guides all the happenings so they will fit the prophetic model (highlighting his almightiness capability).
Which of these models do you seem to apply to the Bible's God?
I think it's a little bit of both and maybe some other factors too.
I think, at least based on the initial assumptions considered in this thread, the Lord does see the beginning from the end so to speak.
But I also think that the Lord has seen in advance where he would have to directly interact with his people in order to keep them on task.
In addition to this, if the Lord cannot truly look upon the "face of sin" then it may be that he has to get his prophets (or angels) to deliver the bad news that the Lord himself may be incapable of looking upon.
One other factor that people might not be considering is that prophecy is not always a future-ward experience. Moses was revealed many things which pertained to the past as well as the future.
This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 05-28-2005 11:03 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Asteragros, posted 05-23-2005 11:08 AM Asteragros has not replied

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 68 of 77 (255582)
10-30-2005 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by AdminPhat
05-25-2005 7:28 AM


Re: How do Prophecies work?
AdminPhat is correct Brian.
Please post a new potential thread for this question -- speaking as a regular poster of course, and not anyone with admin or mod status.
This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 10-30-2005 01:58 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AdminPhat, posted 05-25-2005 7:28 AM AdminPhat has not replied

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 69 of 77 (255735)
10-31-2005 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
05-30-2005 1:14 PM


Re: Since this thread is about God's Prophecies ...
I have to admit that I don't read Matthew 25:31-46 in exactly the same way jar. I can see your point about non-believers being included in with the sheep -- because they beleived in Christ by their actions.
But, on the other hand, I think you take too much liberalities with the text when presenting the goats as being almost exclusively Christian. I do see that Christians can be included in that group, and some most certainly will be. But I don't see it to the level you are stressing.
There are other passages of Scripture which allude to what you are saying, such as the one in which a tree is known by its fruit:
NIV writes:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.
Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
The context of this passage too seems to be one of final judgment "on that day".
I will note that the 'evildoers' never apparently offered to lift a finger to help others. They seemed to be resting secure in the "knowledge" that they were saved and possibly just judging others that they thought were not saved.
However, even in this passage, the majority are not implied. Rather what seems to be the central focus is that of judging others harshly -- and that a Christian should not do this.
I suspect that, in the end, many athiests might be surprised to be greeting their heavenly father in heaven via the son they knew by what they did. I also suspect that some Christians will be dissapointed in their negative eternal fate.
But I don't think this is the majority rule in either case.
If rough percentages are allowed by virtue of parables, then a 50/50 chance might be determined using parables related to the virgins using their oil unwisely.
But, then again, perhaps the fall of the angels themselves gives some indication too -- implying a third of humanity in general will fall as well.
It's not in the Scriptures, but I've thought for some time now that those of us who make it to heaven throughout all human history will probably equal the same amount as the number of angels that fell; ie., we're perhaps the replacement angels so to speak.
I don't know exactly how it will all work out in the end. But I'm fairly sure that God does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 05-30-2005 1:14 PM jar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024