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Author Topic:   Does Peer Pressure stifle the acceptance of the obvious?
gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 31 of 268 (256310)
11-02-2005 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by nator
11-02-2005 5:08 PM


Re: Mike's Link
quote:
Most clinical Psychologists I know ar MD/PhD's, but maybe that's not the case with clinical Psychologists in general.
If you know a few of them you're probably right. I'm just remembering a freshman class were that distinction was made.

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 32 of 268 (256311)
11-02-2005 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by nator
11-02-2005 4:56 PM


Re: peer pressure
On the other hand, when I tell people who ask that I am a non-believer, I run a pretty good chance of getting a lecture.
When asked, I tell people that my religion is a private and personal matter.
That's my story, and I am sticking to it. It sure helps avoid arguments, lectures, etc.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 33 of 268 (256316)
11-02-2005 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by robinrohan
11-02-2005 4:27 PM


Re: peer pressure
To be frank, I find it hard to believe that the situation is very traumatic for most people. The OP makes it sound like there are all these agonized people out there, being bullied from outside and tearing themselves apart on the inside. I suppose it's possible. I personally don't know any such people, but perhaps I live in a sheltered world
Hi, Rob, try studying the Wonderful World of the Watchtower Society, where shunning and disfellowshipping is an art form in community and families. There are plenty of ex-JW websites where members talk of their experiences.

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 Message 23 by robinrohan, posted 11-02-2005 4:27 PM robinrohan has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 268 (256397)
11-02-2005 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Nighttrain
11-02-2005 5:43 PM


Re: peer pressure
Hi, Rob, try studying the Wonderful World of the Watchtower Society
I think I'll pass on that. I definitely lead a sheltered life.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 35 of 268 (256449)
11-03-2005 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
11-02-2005 7:36 AM


I was musing about the notion that some people might be holding on to a set of inherited and quite thoroughly discredited ideas in their belief paradigm-- not because of any remaining real conviction in those ideas but because of a subconscious fear of the social ramifications of denouncing the ideas taught to them by their family, peers and social group. And, perhaps, also a fear of up-setting God.
Where do you feel this fear comes from?
Do you feel bad, or that you are upsetting some kind of balance when you do bad things?
In religion, especially, there is clearly a well of shame and embarrassment, and not least, fear for some to accept that the wonder that us humans are having been part of the process and not a special specific creation.
That is why religion sucks most of the time. If we follow the 2 golden rules, of loving God, and loving others as ourselves, then no shame or fear would happen. There should be no fear in your life when you come to know Jesus, not just imagine him in your mind.
You are forgiven.
Peer pressure for me, has never lead to anything good in my own personal life. I am glad that I "found God" for myself, and I am no longer affected by peer pressure, in my church or in society.
I am free.

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 Message 1 by ohnhai, posted 11-02-2005 7:36 AM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by ohnhai, posted 11-03-2005 10:23 AM riVeRraT has replied
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 36 of 268 (256450)
11-03-2005 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by robinrohan
11-02-2005 4:27 PM


Re: peer pressure
If they come to that belief, I don't think they are worried about what God thinks: they think that God agrees with them.
Or they feel like God forgives them, if they are making a mistake. And that is fine.
The OP makes it sound like there are all these agonized people out there, being bullied from outside and tearing themselves apart on the inside. I suppose it's possible. I personally don't know any such people, but perhaps I live in a sheltered world.
Ask yourself how you got into that sheltered world, then after asking yourself that read the next statement.
Then take a moment and ask God, even if you don't believe in him
and the first thought that pops into your mind, will probably be his answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by robinrohan, posted 11-02-2005 4:27 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 48 by robinrohan, posted 11-03-2005 8:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 37 of 268 (256466)
11-03-2005 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by nator
11-02-2005 4:56 PM


Re: peer pressure
patronizing condescention from Christians and othr religious people towards non-believers.
I think this the difference is not atheism vs theism; it's not even having beliefs (atheism and theism) vs. holding beliefs tentatively (agnosticism / some mix therin). It's simply being tolerant of others and not thinking you're "RIGHT" , that you have TRUTH.
Peer pressure has nothing to do with the supernatural; it has everything to do with access to truth. That's why you see peer pressure in all walks of life, not just via religion. You see it in all ranges of age. You see it due to economics, race, geographic identity, ... basically from any identifying source that can be used to make a group.
I don't see that atheists are in any way a special case. In our american culture, atheists don't seem to have a strong group identity. When they do, they'll exert peer pressure too. Don't mean to take a personal shot at anyone, but I think crashfrog is a good example of someone who would (knowingly or not) exert peer pressure on others in a group. He is very strong in his beliefs, and often expresses disdain for those who obstruct their own view of the simplicity of atheism, who don't have his view because of their own faults.
From what I've read, the deaf community is a great example. There's a strong sense of inside / outside, and those who are in the deaf community and try to span both the inside and outside communities feel strong peer pressure. I'm sure it wasn't always like this. Without a strong group identity, it couldn't have been like this.
So, I agree with robinrohan. When people don't have religion, they don't suddenly become scientific. It's a more general dynamic of social groups.

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 38 of 268 (256476)
11-03-2005 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by riVeRraT
11-03-2005 8:21 AM


Where do you feel this fear comes from?
Please read my other post in this thread I believe I indicate clearly enough what I believe is the source of fear in some.
I am glad that I "found God" for myself, and I am no longer affected by peer pressure, in my church or in society.
I am free.
I am glad for you. ( no really) if your faith is your discovery,your creaion, your own understanding of that around us then that is as you say a very real sense of freedom. I congratulate you on creating that space for your self. Not many can do it. You don’t feel the fear I am on about because you have constructed your own faith around you;you dont doubt at all because these are your beliefs not a set you were told to believe.
But I’m sure you agree there are many who find themselves being brought up in an ideology that isn’t right for them and they know it. The true & honest thing to do would be to leave that ideology behind and seek their own. But they are scared of speaking out and daring to question.
You are forgiven.
OK. Mildly off topic, but for what am I forgiven?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2005 8:21 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 39 of 268 (256478)
11-03-2005 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Ben!
11-03-2005 9:27 AM


Re: peer pressure
quote:
I don't see that atheists are in any way a special case. In our american culture, atheists don't seem to have a strong group identity. When they do, they'll exert peer pressure too. Don't mean to take a personal shot at anyone, but I think crashfrog is a good example of someone who would (knowingly or not) exert peer pressure on others in a group. He is very strong in his beliefs, and often expresses disdain for those who obstruct their own view of the simplicity of atheism, who don't have his view because of their own faults.
I don't usually get into debates on this forum but I don't see how crashfrog is exerting peer pressure. He might criticize theists for being thiests (though I don't think this is true of him). But even if it were true that he does this, that is not exerting peer pressure. Thiests are not his peers in this regard as he does not belong to their faith. To exert peer pressure he would have to criticize me (or another athiest) for not sharing his views of life, the universe, and everything. What you describe is one group vilifying another (a frequent enough event). But it is different from the topic of the thread where there is conflict within a group.
Also, with regard to group identity, how could there be group identity of atheism? It is a simple lack of belief in the supernatural and does not describe a set of beliefs or some scripted dogma. Like another poster in this thread mentioned, I have also known very few other athiests. I can only think of two...kind of hard to have a peer group when only about 2 of the people I have known are athiests like me..almost everyone I know or am friends with are theists of some flavor.

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 Message 37 by Ben!, posted 11-03-2005 9:27 AM Ben! has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by robinrohan, posted 11-03-2005 10:51 AM Mammuthus has replied
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 268 (256481)
11-03-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Mammuthus
11-03-2005 10:45 AM


Re: peer pressure
how could there be group identity of atheism?
One could easily imagine a atheistic group with a political agenda. It is true, the atheistic part of their dogma might be only one element--nonetheless they would all be atheists.
I seem to recall some rather large groups of these from history.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Mammuthus, posted 11-03-2005 11:17 AM robinrohan has replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 41 of 268 (256492)
11-03-2005 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by robinrohan
11-03-2005 10:51 AM


Re: peer pressure
quote:
It is true, the atheistic part of their dogma might be only one element--nonetheless they would all be atheists.
But the group identity would then be political rather than that they are athiests. Like a political group where all the members happen to be short. And the peer pressure would be political rather than regarding lack of belief in the supernatural.
Also, what is an athiest dogma?...considering there is no organized (or disorganized for that matter) religion of atheism, would be interested to know about the dogma I have never heard of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by robinrohan, posted 11-03-2005 10:51 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by robinrohan, posted 11-03-2005 11:25 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 268 (256494)
11-03-2005 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Mammuthus
11-03-2005 11:17 AM


Re: peer pressure
Like a political group where all the members happen to be short
This would be a coincidental similarity. But thinking that religion is the opium of the people is not a coincidental feature of a group of atheistic communists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Mammuthus, posted 11-03-2005 11:17 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Mammuthus, posted 11-04-2005 3:43 AM robinrohan has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 43 of 268 (256495)
11-03-2005 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by ohnhai
11-03-2005 10:23 AM


I apologize, I will read through the thread.I just responded to your original statement.
You don’t feel the fear I am on about because you have constructed your own faith around you;you dont doubt at all because these are your beliefs not a set you were told to believe.
I may or may not have constructed the faith around me, but I felt free in an instant, it was not a long process. Of course this does exclude me from responsibility of my actions. It does however release others from thiers against me.
OK. Mildly off topic, but for what am I forgiven?
There in lies a journey in itself. To find out just what we feel guilty for. It can take your whole life to uncover what it is you feel guilty for or need to be free from, because sometimes it is buried in layers. But no matter what it is, you are forgiven, and you won't be held responsible for it.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 44 of 268 (256530)
11-03-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by riVeRraT
11-03-2005 8:21 AM


quote:
There should be no fear in your life when you come to know Jesus, not just imagine him in your mind.
How do you tell the difference between "knowing" and "imagining him in your mind"?

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 45 of 268 (256531)
11-03-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by riVeRraT
11-03-2005 8:26 AM


Re: peer pressure
quote:
Ask yourself how you got into that sheltered world, then after asking yourself that read the next statement.
Then take a moment and ask God, even if you don't believe in him
and the first thought that pops into your mind, will probably be his answer.
You knoiw, I did what you suggested, and do you k now what the next thought that popped into my head was?
"Damn, this chicken salad I'm eating right now is really good!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2005 8:26 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2005 11:48 PM nator has replied

  
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