When did America reach it's moral peak?

When global climate change wipes humanity off of the face of the earth. No sinners, no sin -- even the fundamentalists should be happy.

That's an interesting idea.Do you know how that coincides with our treatment of native Americans at that time? I'm also a bit leery that it is the beginning of the Progressive Movement in the US which while giving us some benefits, has also led us so far astray as a society.Not to say that I am rejecting what you are suggesting, just saying these are some things I'll have to weigh along with it. Certainly I could see Reconstruction as a higher point than the Civil War itself, especially for blacks so it may just be right.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

When it gets too hot we turn on the air conditioner. When it gets to cold, we turn on the furnace. What's the problem here?-------------------------------
This would be a pretty nice planet if it wasn't for all the damn people.(:raig

Absolutely. History is change, and eventually moral high points will be reached. There could be a question if we will reach heights seen in the past. And indeed the US might no longer be the US we know of today by the time we hit new heights. Without trying for hyperbole I believe we are entering a new dark age.The last one was due to a lack of information flow, and overt suppression of info to the public by those in control of the information.This new one has the same effects but is being caused by an overabundance of information, including mass dumping of poor data, combined with a public that has generally given up on reason and logic to sift data. Today people are having a hard time discerning fantasy from reality, and opinion from fact.I think we will build toward new highs in general when we reverse our current course of sacrificing freedom for security, intense negative obsession with sex (the modern witchhunt), and decreased tolerance for minority positions in general. I might also add when we renew our commitment to secular govt.I think we will only start reaching some of the specific past heights (pre Revolution) when society as a whole regains critical thinking skills, and those become as common a concern in public education as general literacy is today.(edited to reduce redundancy and improve general soapbox oratory)This message has been edited by holmes, 07-07-2005 04:04 PM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I reckon any highs or any lows will occur when there is enough of concern about whatever it is to get people of their arses in giving a hoot about something. As long as sufficient folk are well fed and things are reasonably rosy then nothing much will happen either way. "Objects at rest..."All it takes is a few critical thinkers to present the cause in a way that captures the imagination of the many. God forbid (I mean it as a figure of speech) that the masses get critically thinking. If ever there was a recipe for tearing a nation apart that would be it.

So the road to national peace and prosperity is to have the masses fat and stupid? Isn't it possible that if a critical thinker presents his / her case well, then OTHER critical figures will take up the banner? People will endeaver to do what makes sense to them.(:raig

Well said, Holmes.

So, Omnivorous...How does one learn critical thinking skills in this instant-press-a-button-get-an-answer society? I know what I had to endure to get there, but I was also surrounded and nutured by critical thinkers."If your paper doesn't site at least 3 different sources, you get an F!"(:raig

Hi, Mespo.The best critical thinking skills are learned by the painful consequences of their absence.I'd consider the "3 different sources" rule a corruption of authentic critical thinking: citing three fools won't make you wise.My elementary school teachers were fond of such rules in the 1950s; they were, like most Americans at that time (and this), remarkably gullible and close-minded people: don't blame the Internet.I cannot discern a moral peak in American history. We (we being a privileged, propertied elite) declared independence over monetary and fiscal policy, embraced slavery, and offered sufferage only to white male property owners.Despite our anti-colonial founding myth, we have acted consistently as an imperium, first decimating the native peoples of this continent and then turning a conqueror's eye to Cuba, Mexico, the Philippines...and a hegemonic eye everywhere.Despite our post-WWII anti-colonial rhetoric, we soon moved to help reimpose colonial rule in southeast Asia and elsewhere. Today, we squander the lion's share of the world's resources on maintaining the globe-poisoning lifestyle of a Neronian pig.Some American decades are less appalling than others, I suppose, but none strike me as moral highlights.

I have this li'l book called "The Good ol' Days: They were awfull!"In it it detaills all of the nasty things going on from the mid 1800's to the mid 1900's and let me tell you it's never been good. This country was founded by wealthy land owners for other wealthy land owners. the ideals were great, but the execution has allways been shoddy.I don't think there has been a particular high or low point. It's all been a mix. Look at the spanish american war, vietnam, and now iraq. Same shit different decade.

Better living through chemistry?

Doesn't it strike you odd that, even though crime rates nowadays are as low as ever and yet the right are calling us the most immoral society in history?

It isn't at all odd.When the right talk about immorality, they are not talking about crime. They are talking about sex.

And others' consensual sex acts their bussiness how?