EvC Forum: I'm trying: a stairway to heaven?

Hi PD,

purpledawn writes:

Please forgive the length

after going through some of Mr Ex Nihilo's posts, yours seems like a footnote

purpledawn writes:

Not sure how to say what I'm thinking. Read minds???

not yet - but I'll try to follow your syllogism anyway.

purpledawn writes:

Jesus did not consider everyone to be a sinner.

Yup. Paul's the one whos starts talking about everyone being born in sin, not Jesus.

purpledawn writes:

So if the synoptics truly provide us with what Jesus said and Jesus spoke the truth, then only the righteous will receive eternal life and the list Jesus gave the rich man is what is necessary to be in a righteous state and inherit eternal life.

My take on Jesus's message is pretty much along the lines of your conclusion. Jesus draws a line between the outwardly righteous and the truely righteous

The line is drawn based on how the person behaves but also the intent of the behaviour, e.g. forgiveness, as you point out (Matt 6:14-15).

It seems that Zacharias and his wife are classed as righteous because of their actions, in Luke 1:6.

It also seems that Jesus can distinguish between appearance of righteousness and true righteousness:

"Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Matt 23:28).

So, yes, I'd say only the genuinely righteous will gain eternal life.

purpledawn writes:

IMO the salvation discussed by Jesus and true Pauline epistles deals with saving the Jews from oppression, not negative judgment.

I'm not so sure about that. Couple of questions: do you think that eternal life = salvation ? do you think that salvation in the synoptics applies specifically to saving the Jews from oppression, or does it apply to others under different circumstances ?

It's also interesting -to me- that Jesus exemplifies a Samaritan as a role model. It's not the parable of the Good Jew, it's that of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritan was under no obligation to uphold any law but he is shown to be truely righteous.

do you think the Samaritan would gain salvation / eternal life ?

purpledawn writes:

Tentative Conclusion: Right behavior puts us in a state of righteousness and right before God. If we are in a state of righteousness at death or at the time of God's judgment, then we will inherit eternal life. If not, then personal destruction.

could you tell me what you base the 'personal destruction' alternative on ?

purpledawn writes:

I don't see that believing in Jesus guarantees eternal life either. If you are in an unrighteous state at death or the time of judgment, I don't think you get the E ticket.

Generally agree, though I think the 'unrighteous state' needs more definition.

purpledawn writes:

But right behavior does not guarantee God will deliver a person or nation from difficult circumstances. God does that as he chooses.

So, right behaviour will gain you eternal life (Matt 25:31-46), but not necessarily a happy corporeal one. Am I following or have I lost you ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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