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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consecution
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 256 of 300 (255571)
10-30-2005 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Yaro
10-30-2005 1:00 AM


RAZD is a good member - OK, if you say so
My impression is that RAZD has largely been acting as a major league jerk since and in regards to Mirabile_Auditu's arrival. Remember, we expect the evolution side to be the rational perspective. RAZD reacted by dragging in all sorts of ugly past experiences from other forums.
I think that RAZD is very knowledgeable and intelligent. I also think he has heavy tendencies to be an arrogant bastard.
That said, I will now restore all RAZD's privileges.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Yaro, posted 10-30-2005 1:00 AM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by RAZD, posted 10-30-2005 7:57 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 263 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2005 5:02 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 257 of 300 (255690)
10-30-2005 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Adminnemooseus
10-30-2005 1:52 AM


My only response on this issue.
Adminnemooseus, msg 256 writes:
My impression is that RAZD has largely been acting as a major league jerk since and in regards to Mirabile_Auditu's arrival. Remember, we expect the evolution side to be the rational perspective.
Adminnemooseus, msg 252 writes:
More seriously, much of RAZD's recent output has been attacks on the person of Mirabile_Auditu. Feel free to look at RAZD's most recent messages.
I take that these are what you are talking about:
RAZD {Abiogenesis - Essential Darwinism} thread, msg 30, subtitled: "SpiderMBA ... Off Topic: Warning to Admin." writes:
Well hello SpiderMBA aka Buxup200 aka DarwinsProf aka John Jaeger, jactitating jingoist aka aka etc etc ... funny how you cannot hide in any name you choose because you cannot keep from going over the top in your own particular fashion. Time to check for spelling errors next right?
Yes, and I have seen those "reviews" and dismantled them in their entirety for the logical fallacies and the misrepresentations and the misconceptions that you invoke in the name of reason. You know me as RAZD8 and as AbbyLeever on another board. Would you like me to post one of your "reviews" complete with the rebuttal that you have never ever answered with any substance? Maybe the "Booknook" would be the place, so everyone can see the level of rationality and logic you put into the effort ... although the thread "Return to Humor" might be more appropriate.
I have also frequently corrected you on the above noted quote and you still choose to get it wrong: this makes you the intentionally wicked one in the subset, but we knew that.
Note to admin: this is one of the most hate filled posters ever seen on the other board I frequent. You would do well to watch him. I predict he will get himself banned, and fairly soon. His blanket condemnation of others as hateful and vile is one of his trademarks. He also classifies anyone not in his orbit around Neptune as being leftist, lying, lockstepping liberals. I can give you some examples if you like.
Same old stock phrases John, even though you have been using them for over 3 years.
What have you done that's new John? Or is "invisible glass" still it?
Enjoy.
and
RAZD, {the old improbable probability problem} thread, msg 31 writes:
SpiderMBA - or Mirabile_Auditu as you are now calling yourself -
Now that I know who you are, I am not surprised that you have not answsered my rebuttal of your weak post (Message 30), or by the logical fallacies and the ad hominem attacks and the complete lack of substance that were involved in your post.
You are not new to the process, nor to me personally, and you can expect no "kid-glove treatement" from me (as I usually give to newcomers).
Those who are unfamiliar with you will do well to take as a beginning the worst example of a FUNDIE (Fundamentalist Under Numerous Delusions Involving Evolution) they know as a starting point.
Enjoy.
These are, I thought, very clearly posted as warnings, to admin and to others, about this person: they are based on actual experience, rather than beng gratuitous ad hominem attacks on his person.
I also note that the substance of these comments that may appear to be attacks, have been substantiated by "Mirabile_Auditu" aka SpiderMBA himself in his several other posts (whether they are to admins in the post new topic forum or to other posters on other threads). For an example of this look at:
http://EvC Forum: RAZD HYPOCRITICAL, HATEFUL AD HOMINEMS
or
EvC Forum: Tweaking the Big Bang
or
EvC Forum: Abiogenesis - Essential Darwinism
or
EvC Forum: Abiogenesis - Essential Darwinism
or
EvC Forum: Ok. Why not. Let's teach ID in Science class!
etc.
These posts substantiate what I have said about John, so I ask: is telling the truth about someone an ad hominem attack?
After I was informed that you did not want such warnings I posted:
RAZD {Abiogenesis - Essential Darwinism}thread, msg 42 writes:
have at it then.
If anyone is aware of a reply from John where he actually and civilly debates (ie - responds more than once) the questions raised by others responding to his posts and without attacking them, please point me to it. I am not averse to changing my opinion of John.
As far as this comment goes:
RAZD reacted by dragging in all sorts of ugly past experiences from other forums.
There are many things I know about John Jaeger from my past experience that I have not posted because they are personal information and have nothing to do with the arguments he makes (or fails to make). If I had wanted to attack John personally I would have posted much more about him.
Adminnemooseus {Suspensions and Bannings (MESSAGES BY ADMIN ONLY)} thread, msg 273 writes:
For persisting in posting in a topic clearly labeled "(MESSAGES BY ADMIN ONLY)", and for ongoing general harassment behaviour.
What I posted was
RAZD {Suspensions and Bannings (MESSAGES BY ADMIN ONLY)} thread, msg 272 writes:
fyi - he.
his name is John Jaeger.
Because Phat (non-admin mode? posting as a civy?) had said "She/He" -- clearly this was just information.
I find it rather silly to have an open forum board that has a thread where everyone can post but are expected not to do so and then have admins get into a fit whenever someone does. I also find it silly to be so upset about a post that is only a piece of additional information and that is totally neutral about that other poster.
ohnhai, msg 250 (this thread) writes:
and how come admin only threads are not admin only.. I've set up several boards in my time and restricting access by group is really easy... so Why can non Admins even post in these topics?
Exactly.
Here's an easy solution: close the thread.
Admins can still post to a closed thread but no-one else can (they also have to be in admin mode to do it so this would be clearer in usage as well).
I think that RAZD is very knowledgeable and intelligent. I also think he has heavy tendencies to be an arrogant bastard.
Thank you. I will take that into advisement.
On another note, I have not been a big fan of the {post new topic} concept, as I felt it did stifle some of the more spontaneous give and take elements of the debate, forcing members to either (1) post off topic on another thread or (2) wait until a new thread is approved (and then the other person has moved on to other topics or lost interest).
I want to commend Adminnemooseus on instigating this (I believe it was his idea) policy, as I have changed my mind about the net benefit of this policy.
It certainly stops new members from spamming the board with a large number of topics that are generally "understellar" in their quality, and which are each then left undefended by the original author as he proceeds to post other similar pieces.
Thank you.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-30-2005 1:52 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by DorfMan, posted 12-01-2005 9:03 AM RAZD has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 258 of 300 (257227)
11-06-2005 2:48 AM


today9823
12 messages so far, not one on topic, all virtually identical: inane spam.
Isn't it time to pull the plug?

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2005 8:46 AM RAZD has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 259 of 300 (257235)
11-06-2005 6:32 AM


To AdminNosy
Regarding this particular post.
As much as I appreciate your moderating powers, I don't think it's fair for you to limit people's responses down to a single line of thought. Christian demanded that the evo side show her a chain that was like biblical geneologies. Crash and others pointed out that such a comparason is rediculous. In a way, Christian is making a statement within her question.
So, it's not enough that creos are given some leniences? Now, they are allowed to assert improper analogies and the evo side is penalized for pointing out the improperness of the analogies?

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by AdminNosy, posted 11-06-2005 12:28 PM coffee_addict has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 260 of 300 (257259)
11-06-2005 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by RAZD
11-06-2005 2:48 AM


Re: today9823 - bump for AdminNWR
http://EvC Forum: evolutionary chain
thank you. and congrats on the admin promo. when do you get a gonzonga avatar for it?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2005 2:48 AM RAZD has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 261 of 300 (257293)
11-06-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by coffee_addict
11-06-2005 6:32 AM


Example yes, accuracy no
The issue was heading off into a discussion of the accuracy or reality of the geneologies. The general idea for an example is ok bit it wasn't the best choice of specific example; too distracting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by coffee_addict, posted 11-06-2005 6:32 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2005 12:40 PM AdminNosy has not replied
 Message 265 by coffee_addict, posted 11-06-2005 6:48 PM AdminNosy has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 262 of 300 (257294)
11-06-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by AdminNosy
11-06-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Example yes, accuracy no
I won't attempt to defend my view of the geneologies any further.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by AdminNosy, posted 11-06-2005 12:28 PM AdminNosy has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 263 of 300 (257331)
11-06-2005 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Adminnemooseus
10-30-2005 1:52 AM


posting solution?
re http://EvC Forum: Suspensions and Bannings (MESSAGES BY ADMIN ONLY) -->EvC Forum: Suspensions and Bannings (MESSAGES BY ADMIN ONLY)
Any thoughts on closing that thread so that non-admins don't have to worry about getting burned by posting on it?
Seems that this would be an easy solution to me - admins can still post to it (or reopen it to use it).
Just a thought Director Mooseus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-30-2005 1:52 AM Adminnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-06-2005 6:30 PM RAZD has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 264 of 300 (257340)
11-06-2005 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by RAZD
11-06-2005 5:02 PM


Re: posting solution?
A new "The Public Record" forum, messages by admin only is in the works. Maybe I'll execute such later tonight.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2005 5:02 PM RAZD has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 265 of 300 (257342)
11-06-2005 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by AdminNosy
11-06-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Example yes, accuracy no
But the point wasn't about geneologies. The point was the comparason between evolutionary lines and geneologies. Christian believes that something like tracing the lines of descendants could be accurate enough to write down the name of one person after another. With this preconceived notion, she demanded that records of evolution be put this way.
We can't get anywhere with Christian until we show her that even her geneologies are inaccurate by a long shot.
In other words, she presented what she thought was perfection and she demanded perfection from the other side. This is why others tried to show her that what she had wasn't perfection at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by AdminNosy, posted 11-06-2005 12:28 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by nwr, posted 11-06-2005 6:57 PM coffee_addict has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 266 of 300 (257344)
11-06-2005 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by coffee_addict
11-06-2005 6:48 PM


Re: Example yes, accuracy no
The point was the comparason between evolutionary lines and geneologies.
The problem was that it became sidetracked into an off-topic argument as to whether the biblical geneologies are true or false. Or at least that is what I took AdminNosy's concern.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by coffee_addict, posted 11-06-2005 6:48 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by coffee_addict, posted 11-06-2005 6:58 PM nwr has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 267 of 300 (257345)
11-06-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by nwr
11-06-2005 6:57 PM


Re: Example yes, accuracy no
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Again, like I said, Christian claimed that her geneologies are perfect and demanded us to give her a perfect evolutionary "chain". It's like saying "why can't you be like me... all perfect and everything...?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by nwr, posted 11-06-2005 6:57 PM nwr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by AdminNosy, posted 11-06-2005 7:12 PM coffee_addict has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 268 of 300 (257347)
11-06-2005 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by coffee_addict
11-06-2005 6:58 PM


Re: Example yes, accuracy no
I understand but it is too much of a diversion from the main topic. If it is necessary to argue it out then take it to a another thread as a side issue.
There are lots of times when an issue comes up that, while pertinent to the main topic, is too big and too far afield.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by coffee_addict, posted 11-06-2005 6:58 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by AdminBen, posted 11-06-2005 7:21 PM AdminNosy has not replied

AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 300 (257349)
11-06-2005 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by AdminNosy
11-06-2005 7:12 PM


Opening new threads
I also wanted to reiterate an earlier point that I made in this thread: by spinning off a new thread, you open up what was a side-discussion hidden within a thread to a broader audience. And it makes things 1000 times easier for people who are interested in a specific subject.
Open new threads. Don't be shy!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by AdminNosy, posted 11-06-2005 7:12 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2005 8:50 PM AdminBen has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 270 of 300 (257363)
11-06-2005 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by AdminBen
11-06-2005 7:21 PM


Re: Opening new threads
Is there a way to do that without going through PNT and losing the congruity of the discussion?
What about a 'side topic' forum in 'side orders' for branched topics?
The rule could be that it has to come from an established thread where it is off-topic but has generated a discussion of at least two posts in length
Perhaps admins could copy the relevant posts and move the discussion to set it up rather than close down the OT posts? (trying to keep work to a min by combining activity of OT monitoring with PNT oversight)
Thus {biblical geneology vs fossil record} could become a side order topic for crash & christian (and anyone else that wants to get into it).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by AdminBen, posted 11-06-2005 7:21 PM AdminBen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by AdminBen, posted 11-06-2005 9:01 PM RAZD has not replied

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