The beginning of the jihad in Europe?

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Were i to respond in kind....

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I just like it when you respond at all. I made a crack about your obsession about Muslims coming in to conquer the West, and the rest of your post is a screed that pretty much indicates how my joke is close to reality. As you would say:

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I'm sorry CS but the content of your posts has simply been more and more bullshit tempered by bigotted messages from the day you arrived here.Arabs is not synonymous with Muslim. To say that the first Arabs moved into that area after 700AD simply shows incredible ignorance.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Almost for everything i have said I have provided evidence, and much of it from prominent Muslim writers. Are they bigoted too? Why do you feel injured when information that contradicts your assumptions is offered? Doesn't truth matter more? And then there's the words of Islamists, which I have presented. Interesting that I am bigoted for presenting their bigotry. That's called shooting the messenger.And, needless to say Arab is not synonomous with muslim. Where have i ever said otherwise?

Given that you cannot respond, instead referring to well-founded discussion as screed, it would appear that I can, indeed, rest my case.Evert note how i provide more links to more writers, Muslim and non Muslims, than perhaps anyone else?

When you made the absolutly rediculous statement that Arabs only entered the middle east after 700AD.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I did not say when they entered the middle east, but Israel and other land areas in the region, for which i provided historical citations. One or both of those citations specifically stated them to come from what is now saudi Arabia.It seems like there's some kind of ego war here at EvC. Truth is far less important than beating an opponent.

What the hell do you think the Middle East is? For God's sake, how far do you think it is from Israel to Damascus? Who do you think was in that area?I'm sorry Steve but you and randman are simply not worth bothering with.Have a nice day.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, I never said the Arabs entered the Middle East in the 7th century, for the simple reason that they were already there, just as you say, adn on which we agree. What i said was that they entered what is now Israel and the surrounding area. My citations backed that up. And thus, my point stands: Arabs invaded what is Israel and displaced most, but not all, of the Jews.

i find it funny that people think this is a new thing just because our media is only now airing it. part of the reason france didn't join us in iraq was because they had only just gotten some handle on uprisings by islamic citizens. and for some reason it's now useful for our media to report this when it wasn't before because then we could yell at them and scream about freedom fries.

The majority of the Jewish tribes were nomadic along with the majority of the peoples of what we now call the middle east. Arabs as you call them are the philistines of the bible, they were there the whole time. What you may be referring to is the occupation of Jerusalem.I am at a loss to work out what relevance Judaism,Islamism, Zionism, fundamentalism or any ..ism has to do with the riots, other than to fit in with your preconceived ideas of what Islamists / fundamentalists represent. (added note - I admit to some radicalisation in the riots in France - yet the deportations seem to reflect a large proportion of illegal immigrants, ie deport them because they are illegal immigrants and not because of some other heinous crimes)Maybe some idea of your own personal contact with moslems and jews would better help me have a context to work with, because this search engine you are using and quoting with seems highly selective.

Nothing in that post was well-founded. It was nothing more than hyperbolic rhetoric. Nothing wrong with a little hyperbole, but you are confusing your own empty rhetoric with well-reasoned discussion.

Might have escaped MLK and your attention, but Arabs are SEMITES. So when anyone attacks Palestinians/Arabs, they are not anti-semitic?

It seems odd that you accuse others of ignoring YOUR evidence, or your hand-picked citations. The quotes you provide are no doubt true. What bothers me is that I have never heard of these people. The Muslim Council of Britain has not heard of these people.Most christians would deny that Fred Phelps speaks for them, and many do not know who the hell he is. Would an anti-christian website be within their rights to quote him , and represent the quotes as an honest representation of all christians' views?This highlights one of the problems of the internet, many people who hold views distinctly at odds with the majority can appear to represent the majority, the majority whose opinions are not radical enough to merit internet interest.I accuse you of very selective quoting, and ask you to talk to muslims and jews in your local community and find out about the issues you speak so knowingly of, and so find out how prevalent the views you speak about and quote so often.

the Arabs are not the phillistines, who died out. There were some nomadic jews, but not generally. That is why there were two jewish states in Israel, before the modern 3rd one (but never an Arab state because arabs in the region were, generally, nomadic).I agree that this has nothing to do with the topic. But it was not i who digressed. However, in responding, i have perpetuated the digression.I offered several links from various sources on the rioting and general situation, to both Muslim and non muslim writers.As for personal experience with Muslims, it has been generally positive, in fact. My son's best friend, before he moved away, was Muslim (although i realized later why his father told me he had a hard time with my son being Jewish: they were Islamists). My daughter's best friend now is Muslim, as is her dayhome. I live in an area of the city where there is a notable Muslim population, including several near neighbours. Most are not Arab, and those who are fled Islamist tyranny. They despise the islamists no less than do I. These people are genuine democrats.

I guess we'll have to agree to disaGREE, THEN.