Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The beginning of the jihad in Europe?
Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 256 of 301 (258824)
11-11-2005 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
11-09-2005 9:00 PM


Re: CS's Anti-Tolerationalistic Stance
Please realize:
1) I don't confidently have *the answer* to preventing French-Moslem jihads and 2) I am merely a wretched 9/11-victim's voice crying out for any solutions of which I conjectured a few.
*Straining knats and swallowing camels* (if you will) about grammar, religion, etc. seems way off topic to me, anyway.
If agreeable to you please conjecture tentative solution(s) to pre-jihad(s) in Europe (or point me to where you have).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 11-09-2005 9:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 11-11-2005 11:55 AM Philip has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 257 of 301 (258827)
11-11-2005 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by CanadianSteve
11-11-2005 9:52 AM


Let's play this arbitrary date game: If the US now has a moral right to exist on what was native land, in what year did that right arise? 1776? 1865?
Who said we had a moral right? What we have is a practical right. At this point giving back land en masse would be a practical impossibility and causing the same kind of harm to a different set of people.
No one today is culpable for what others did in the far past. Neither are those today actually victims of what happened in the past. However we are still in a position where we cause harm to those same people. The continued victimization must end and some reparations are in order.
When did the practical right begin? I admit it is arbitrary, but it would be once permanent settlements had grown sufficiently to preclude undue hardship to throw the people living there out, especially for the gain that the original victims would receive for the return of land.
One difference with Israel, is that the people who commited atrocities and the victims of some of the atrocities are still alive. And the prosecutions are also still going on.
Palestinians have a greater practical and moral claim to return of land and other reparations, then Native Americans have at this time.
Then again as I have said that would justify neither group to violent action in pursuit of such reparations. It would make them understandable, but not just.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 9:52 AM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 11:51 AM Silent H has replied
 Message 266 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 2:52 PM Silent H has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 258 of 301 (258829)
11-11-2005 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by CanadianSteve
11-11-2005 9:53 AM


Must be tough for a moral relativist and profound leftist to argue against MLK's moral authority.
No, he is wrong and I don't buy into arguments from authority, nor arguments from nonauthorities.
Like any human MLK did some things that were helpful and beautiful and then he also did some things that were mistaken and ugly. Unlike fundies I do not have to deify men to agree with them when I think they are doing right, such that I cannot point out when what they do or say is fallacious.
It must be tough for you having to scrape the bottom of the logic barrel in defense of your position as you are now doing.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 9:53 AM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 2:55 PM Silent H has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 301 (258831)
11-11-2005 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Silent H
11-11-2005 11:38 AM


quote:
No one today is culpable for what others did in the far past. Neither are those today actually victims of what happened in the past. However we are still in a position where we cause harm to those same people. The continued victimization must end and some reparations are in order.
I just want to say that I like the way this was said.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 11:38 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 12:38 PM Chiroptera has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 260 of 301 (258832)
11-11-2005 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Philip
11-11-2005 11:22 AM


Possible solutions
  • begin bringing Imams in to teach your kids.
  • stop using nonsense phrases like you do to describe Islam.
  • realize the the GOD you worship is the very same GOD the Muslims worship.
  • begin trying to get bigotry out of your life. Get out and fight for Gay Rights.
  • pack you family up and visit your local Mosque. Ask them to teach you and your kids about Islam. And listen, listen like a child.
  • boycott and speak out against the Christian Jihad as being led by the 700 Club and other such Hate Groups.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Philip, posted 11-11-2005 11:22 AM Philip has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 12:40 PM jar has replied
 Message 264 by randman, posted 11-11-2005 12:49 PM jar has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 261 of 301 (258843)
11-11-2005 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Chiroptera
11-11-2005 11:51 AM


I just want to say that I like the way this was said.
Thanks, you've been doing well yourself. I liked the last concise bit of depantsing. I'd say unmasking but what was revealed seemed more an ass than anything above the neck.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 11:51 AM Chiroptera has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 262 of 301 (258845)
11-11-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
11-11-2005 11:55 AM


Re: Possible solutions
Get out and fight for Gay Rights.
Why can't it be sexual rights for everyone? Gays are not the only persecuted sexual group.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 11-11-2005 11:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 11-11-2005 12:41 PM Silent H has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 263 of 301 (258846)
11-11-2005 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Silent H
11-11-2005 12:40 PM


Re: Possible solutions
some other thread my friend.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 12:40 PM Silent H has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 264 of 301 (258855)
11-11-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
11-11-2005 11:55 AM


Re: Possible solutions
the 700 Club is the Christian jihad?
Oh, and didn't one of the family's that took such advice as your's wind up with their son in Afghanistan fighting as a Moslem against the United States?
Why not go to KKK rallies as well, and listen to them, "just like a child", you know to learn about their beliefs and realize they worship the same God as you do?
How about the Neo-Nazis? I suppose if the Klan isn't around, you can take your family to some of their meetings to hear a little more, you know, be open-minded and all.
This message has been edited by randman, 11-11-2005 12:50 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 11-11-2005 11:55 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 5:28 PM randman has not replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6472 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 265 of 301 (258907)
11-11-2005 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Chiroptera
11-11-2005 11:19 AM


Re: Anti-Semitism
I said they want to destroy Israel, as they do, and as they have persued rather than accept a land for peace deal (read Bill Clinton's book). Does that mean every single last one? Of course not. Do you use the English language than do others?
And tell me: If I accurately say that palestinian men abuse women (no, not every single one), does that make me a misogynist?
If I accurately say that the Nazis (no, not every single one) wanted to kill all Jews, does that make me a genocidist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 11:19 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 3:26 PM CanadianSteve has replied
 Message 270 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 3:53 PM CanadianSteve has replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6472 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 266 of 301 (258908)
11-11-2005 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Silent H
11-11-2005 11:38 AM


When did the Anglos get a moral/practical right to England after pushing out the Saxons? When did the Arabs get a moral/practical right to israel after pushing out the Jews?
As for atrocities, they are committed against Jews by arabs, not the other way around. No nation, not one, not ever, has shown the resolute moral resolve in the face of those who would "throw them into the sea" or the gas chambers, that Israel has. The allies firebombed Desden and used nuclear weapons aginst the japanese. Israel would have every right to do likewise against no less implacable, crazed, murderous enemy. Yet Israel hasn't even responded in equal measure. It is absolutely incredible, and will be so recorded by history - just as history will record the lies about Israel for what they are: yet another round of ages old vile anti-semitism. And those who subscribed to those lies will be condemned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 11:38 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Chiroptera, posted 11-11-2005 3:28 PM CanadianSteve has replied
 Message 291 by Silent H, posted 11-12-2005 5:31 AM CanadianSteve has not replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6472 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 267 of 301 (258911)
11-11-2005 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Silent H
11-11-2005 11:43 AM


I've considered what you said, for a nano second. And guess what? I've decided that MLK has more moral authority than you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 11:43 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Silent H, posted 11-12-2005 5:44 AM CanadianSteve has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 268 of 301 (258918)
11-11-2005 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by CanadianSteve
11-11-2005 2:45 PM


Re: Anti-Semitism
quote:
Do you use the English language than do others?
Ha ha ha ha ha. You mean like you do? Ha ha ha ha ha.
-
quote:
And tell me: If I accurately say that palestinian men abuse women (no, not every single one), does that make me a misogynist?
If I accurately say that the Nazis (no, not every single one) wanted to kill all Jews, does that make me a genocidist?
What the hell are you talking about? You not only characterized an entire people as homicidal terrorists, but you used language that expressed your utter contempt for this people.
Let me copy your sentence here again, adding bold-face to indicate the relevant phrasing:
But the palestinians don't plan on doing what they cannot, wiping out ISrael in a few blasts - much as they salivate at the thought.
Suppose I rewrite the sentence like this:
But the Jews don't plan on doing what they cannot, wiping out the Palestinians with a few military strikes - much as they salivate at the thought.
Now if I had written such a thing, I would have been accused of anti-Semitism (and rightly so).

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 2:45 PM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 5:08 PM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 301 (258919)
11-11-2005 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by CanadianSteve
11-11-2005 2:52 PM


quote:
When did the Anglos get a moral/practical right to England after pushing out the Saxons?
Ha ha ha ha. It was a combination of the Angles and the Saxons that conquered Celtic Britain. Ha ha ha ha ha.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 2:52 PM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 5:11 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 270 of 301 (258923)
11-11-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by CanadianSteve
11-11-2005 2:45 PM


Re: Anti-Semitism
quote:
deal (read Bill Clinton's book)
A known perjurer?

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 2:45 PM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-11-2005 5:12 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024