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Author Topic:   Increase in Natural Disasters? Prophesied?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 157 (259213)
11-12-2005 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Chiroptera
11-12-2005 10:16 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
Chiroptera writes:
My first instinct is to be highly skeptical of essays that need to use phrases like this. Usually it's a sign of someone running off at the mouth. Check the original sources, that is, if there are original sources and this isn't just something that this clown overheard in a bar.
Well.......lets have it.......your substantive refute to the paper's information.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:16 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:26 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 157 (259215)
11-12-2005 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 10:23 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
Hello, buz.
Well, I need something to refute. Unsubstantiated rumors, innuendo, and name-calling in what seems to be an op-ed piece (I'm guessing -- the link you supplied doesn't take me to the article itself) isn't "information" that needs to be refuted.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:45 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 157 (259216)
11-12-2005 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 10:03 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
That's a nice spin on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell's Call to Jihad Buz. Blame it on GOD.
But those idiots along with other's like Bill O'Reilly are just slightly more sophisticated in spinning the media (that THEY control) and calling down the wrath of God on the city of San Fransico, in blaming 9-11 on sinners, on calling for the assasination of people that actually try to do what GOD really want's like teach children to read, in damning citizens that were smart enough to understand that they don't have to raise their children in willfull ignorance.
Yeah, 100,000 to 300,00 AK47s, an obsolete gun from 50 years ago and an ammunition factory are real threats to world peace. I'm sure the Marines are shaking in their boots over that one.
But don't worry Buz, the Christian-Right Wing Cabal that run this nation are already putting together plans to deal with the threat from Chavez.
Let's git them threats like Syria and Venezuuela
AbE:
Also, I wouold say that encouraging anyone to "nuke" the State Department doesn't count as a terrorist threat in your eyes.
Pat Robertson wants to nuke the State Department
This message has been edited by jar, 11-12-2005 09:38 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 157 (259217)
11-12-2005 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by crashfrog
11-11-2005 10:00 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
crashfrog writes:
Because Robertson isn't actually any good at it?
Powerful refute there, crashfrog!! Shall we submit this for POM?

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2005 10:00 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 157 (259218)
11-12-2005 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 10:23 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
I just found a link to that op-ed piece that you are referencing, buz.
This is such a short article that I'm afraid that too much quoting will run afoul of "fair-use" laws. Nonetheless, I have to share:
The Monroe Doctrine warns against foreign intervention in the Western Hemisphere.
It's a bad sign when someone needs to invoke the Monroe Doctrine.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 11:02 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 157 (259222)
11-12-2005 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Chiroptera
11-12-2005 10:26 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
Chiroptera writes:
Well, I need something to refute. Unsubstantiated rumors, innuendo, and name-calling in what seems to be an op-ed piece (I'm guessing -- the link you supplied doesn't take me to the article itself) isn't "information" that needs to be refuted.
Nevertheless, there's information in it. You're questioning it's credibility. Imo, you, the one challenging the information are the one who should do some research to back up your allegations with something to refute it. Otherwise it stands unrefuted. If I challenge information counterparts have posted, that's always been what's required of me, as per forum guidelines. The rule of thumb in war is unless you have the ammo, don't attack.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:26 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:49 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 113 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 157 (259224)
11-12-2005 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 10:45 PM


Is that the way it works?
Hi, buz.
quote:
Imo, you, the one challenging the information are the one who should do some research to back up your allegations with something to refute it.
In my opinion, I don't need to back up my allegations any more than the person I'm challenging has. Since the writer of that piece offered no substantiation that Chavez is a tyrant and bent on oppressing his own people, I don't need to offer any substantiation of my challenge.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:45 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 11:19 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 157 (259226)
11-12-2005 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 10:45 PM


Very interesting.
While it seems to be true that Venezuela is buying rifles, I can't seem to find any confirmation that he is buying MiGs. When I Google "hugo chavez mig" all I get are the usual kook sites: the Heritage Foundation, FrontPageMag, and Fox News.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 10:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 11-12-2005 11:06 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 157 (259228)
11-12-2005 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Chiroptera
11-12-2005 10:34 PM


Re: Is there any difference between Osama Bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
Chiroptera writes:
I just found a link to that op-ed piece that you are referencing, buz.
This is such a short article that I'm afraid that too much quoting will run afoul of "fair-use" laws. Nonetheless, I have to share:
The Monroe Doctrine warns against foreign intervention in the Western Hemisphere.
It's a bad sign when someone needs to invoke the Monroe Doctrine.
I guess my point is to show that the character of Christian notables such as PR, Falwell and Dobson are so often viciously attacked by posters here when these Christian notables suggest the same of the things others, even including presidents don't consider to be madness.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:34 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 128 by nator, posted 11-15-2005 9:37 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 115 of 157 (259230)
11-12-2005 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by PaulK
11-03-2005 1:43 AM


one would also need to prove that there wasn't some natural explaination. a prophet could be someone who knew enough about the world to imagine that maybe disasters happen in cycles (as they do...). since we are nearing a new ice age, one can expect that we will see an increase in natural disasters.
nothing special about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by PaulK, posted 11-03-2005 1:43 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 11:38 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 116 of 157 (259231)
11-12-2005 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Chiroptera
11-12-2005 10:58 PM


Re: Very interesting.
The AK-47 was developed in 1943. For a nation to buy 300,000 such rifles for their military is really no big deal. For a nation to want to have an ammunition factory is also not really a big deal. The AK-47 is a great old work horse, but it's hardly state-of-the-art.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:58 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Chiroptera, posted 11-13-2005 9:10 AM jar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 157 (259233)
11-12-2005 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
11-12-2005 11:02 PM


almost agree
quote:
I guess my point is to show that the character of Christian notables such as PR, Falwell and Dobson are so often viciously attacked by posters here....
I would agree that it is bad form to slander anyone. Of course, it isn't slander if the attacks are based on actual fact. On the other hand, if the attack, even if factual, isn't relevant to the actual topic at hand, then the attack is rather gratuitous.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2005 11:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 157 (259235)
11-12-2005 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Chiroptera
11-12-2005 10:49 PM


Re: Is that the way it works?
Chiroptera writes:
In my opinion, I don't need to back up my allegations any more than the person I'm challenging has. Since the writer of that piece offered no substantiation that Chavez is a tyrant and bent on oppressing his own people, I don't need to offer any substantiation of my challenge.
Fine. Then until someone refutes it, it stands unrefuted for us all to judge for ourselves as to it's significance and credibility. I watched the brutal Castro regime grow from it's inception, reading of all the bloodshed and suffering that ensued over the decades. Our State Department actually helped and encouraged Castro in acquiring power. It began with nothing but small arms, escalating to the menace it's been in the hemisphere and to it's hapless citizenry. Young folks don't seem to realize the threat of an alliance between these two nations poses to the hemisphere. All they need now is to team up with Mexico and they're off to the races for our demise.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Chiroptera, posted 11-12-2005 10:49 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Chiroptera, posted 11-13-2005 9:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 157 (259242)
11-12-2005 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by macaroniandcheese
11-12-2005 11:04 PM


Prophet's Knowledge
The prophets of milleniums past would likely know relatively little about what they were to prophesy. If they saw an automobile in a vision, it would be called a chariot in the prophecy, for example. One of them spoke of chariots running like lightnings and crashing together in the streets -- possibly automobiles.
We may see reasons for frequency increasing of disasters which would likely not be understood by the prophets. The prophets simply spoke and wrote what was divinely given to them. Had they simply prophesied the increase of disasters for the end of the ages, they'd have nothing, but when they couple that with a reinstated Israel, modern tech, events in the Middle East, moneyless monetary system, et al, we at least have a case for the possibility of credible stuff, Robertson and others have said, concernng the disaster phenomonon we're observing being prophetic.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-12-2005 11:04 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 157 (259293)
11-13-2005 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by jar
11-12-2005 11:06 PM


Re: Very interesting.
Actually, I would say that buying 300,000 modern rifles for its military would be no big deal. Especially, when the Colombia civil war is spilling over the borders into Venezuela, and especially when pro-US Colombia is alleging that Venezuela is supporting the Colombian insurgents (and thereby setting the stage for you-know-what).
I imagine that the AK-47 is popular because it is cheap and does the job.
Edited to correct a typo.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 13-Nov-2005 02:15 PM

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 11-12-2005 11:06 PM jar has not replied

  
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