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Author Topic:   evolutionary chain
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4632 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 76 of 204 (259801)
11-15-2005 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by randman
11-15-2005 12:51 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
I just think when something like 90% of the evidence that should be there is non-existent that it is reasonable to question the model. You to this date refuse to deal with that fact.

That's because you think the fossil record is the only evidence available, but you disregard the wealth of genetic evidence and geologic evidence.

Compound that with the fact that no one else has put forward a theory that accounts for even a smidge of that evidence, you got yourself a pretty solid item. You don't dispute genetics, why the hell do you dispute the ToE?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:51 AM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 77 of 204 (259831)
11-15-2005 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Yaro
11-15-2005 1:33 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yaro, I don't think it's the only evidence for evolution. I admit there is evidence elsewhere.

You misunderstand me. I think the fossil record is well nigh proof against current ToE models, and as such, the other data needs reinterpreting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Yaro, posted 11-15-2005 1:33 AM Yaro has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by arachnophilia, posted 11-15-2005 2:24 AM randman has not yet responded
 Message 84 by nator, posted 11-15-2005 10:31 AM randman has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 114 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 78 of 204 (259833)
11-15-2005 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by randman
11-15-2005 2:20 AM


reinterpretting the data
you never reinterpretted my data, rand.

i see ALOT of gaps there, don't you? i mean, 90% of the lines are missing! it's hardly a complete picture. what do you suppose it is? were the dot's just created that way?


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2129 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 79 of 204 (259894)
11-15-2005 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by arachnophilia
11-15-2005 2:24 AM


Re: reinterpretting the data
i see ALOT of gaps there, don't you? i mean, 90% of the lines are missing! it's hardly a complete picture. what do you suppose it is? were the dot's just created that way?

Sure looks like that Incompetent Designer`s been at work again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by arachnophilia, posted 11-15-2005 2:24 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

    
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4632 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 80 of 204 (259899)
11-15-2005 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by arachnophilia
11-15-2005 2:24 AM


Re: reinterpretting the data
Those dots don't connect! There is no proof anywhere that those dots were ever connected in any way!

Besides... I don't see a pattern that looks like a whale in there!


This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 204 (259905)
11-15-2005 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Christian
10-28-2005 6:10 PM


quote:
some possabilities might be the jumping aparatus of the click beetle, the spinneret and male copulating organ of spiders, the wing of a bat, the neck of the giraffe, the male reproductive organs of the dragonfly, the mammary glands or four-chambered heart of mammals, the shells on turtles, etc.

You should realize, of course, that soft tissues like hearts and mammary glands do not fossilize. Also, bat wing bones are tiny and fragile, which would mean that fossils of them would be easily destroyed and therefore rare. Same with insect soft parts.

This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-15-2005 10:05 AM


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 Message 10 by Christian, posted 10-28-2005 6:10 PM Christian has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 82 of 204 (259907)
11-15-2005 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
11-14-2005 10:27 PM


Re: Evolution has some holes, but there are a lot more in the whole "Noah's Flood" thing
quote:
Thanks for admitting that there are some holes in ToE.

There are holes in every single scientific theory in existence.

I don't know anyone on this board, or any scientist, for that matter, who denies this. Why do you think any of us would?

All of them are incomplete.

The ToE, however, has been demonstrated to have enormously useful predictive power; much more than any other scientific theory of the origin of species that has ever been proposed.


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 Message 69 by randman, posted 11-14-2005 10:27 PM randman has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 83 of 204 (259910)
11-15-2005 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by randman
11-15-2005 12:51 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
quote:
I'm not asking for an unbroken chain but for some sort of honesty from evolutionists. You have, at best, something like a handful of links in a chain that spans 4000 or more links. There is no rational reason why 99.99% of the links are not shown, and yet you still dishonestly suggest that what I asked for is every single link.
I just think when something like 90% of the evidence that should be there is non-existent that it is reasonable to question the model. You to this date refuse to deal with that fact.

Scientists do not have a very good understanding of how gravity works.

There are, in fact, sevearal competing scientific theories which attempt to explain it, but each of them have "holes" rather larger than the "holes" in the ToE, and none of them are as accurately predictive as the ToE.

Why do you attack Evolutionary Biology, casting aspersions, when this obviously weaker and less-supported area of science continues to be taught in schools?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:51 AM randman has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 204 (259911)
11-15-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by randman
11-15-2005 2:20 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yes, randman, please answer the question:

Do you have a cat? Can you show us the skeleton of your cat's great grandfather?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 2:20 AM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 85 of 204 (259936)
11-15-2005 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by nator
11-15-2005 10:31 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
For all the lurkers, when confronted with uncomfortable facts, evos generally respond as shraf does above with silly posts and nothing viably substantial.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by nator, posted 11-15-2005 10:31 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 11-15-2005 12:08 PM randman has responded
 Message 108 by nator, posted 11-16-2005 7:21 AM randman has not yet responded
 Message 109 by nator, posted 11-16-2005 7:23 AM randman has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30941
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 86 of 204 (259939)
11-15-2005 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by randman
11-15-2005 12:01 PM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
For all the lurkers, when confronted with uncomfortable facts, Creationists in general and randman specifcally respond(s) by misprepresenting what their(his) opponent has said, by changing the subject, by moving the goalposts or by playing moving definitions.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:01 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 87 of 204 (259943)
11-15-2005 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by jar
11-15-2005 12:08 PM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yea, not explaining where my cats' grandparents are buried is sure moving the goalpoasts....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 11-15-2005 12:08 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Yaro, posted 11-15-2005 12:31 PM randman has responded

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4632 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 88 of 204 (259944)
11-15-2005 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by randman
11-15-2005 12:30 PM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
It's an accurate representation to your unreasonable demands.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:30 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 1:12 PM Yaro has responded

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3035 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 89 of 204 (259956)
11-15-2005 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Yaro
11-15-2005 12:31 PM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yea, just asking for data you guys claim you have (but don't) is unreasonable, eh?

If you are going to say critics are just talking about "gaps" and state that no one can have "every link", then you are obligated to tell the truth, specifically how many of the theoritical links do you have.

You guys act like you have a substantial portion of the evolutionary chain. Just look at the stupid diagram above.

But in reality, you don't have enough "links" to even show that they are links. If we look at say, a proposed path of evolution that would take, say, 10,000 links, you have maybe, what 5 potentials?

It's laughable.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Yaro, posted 11-15-2005 12:31 PM Yaro has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Yaro, posted 11-15-2005 1:18 PM randman has not yet responded
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 11-15-2005 1:30 PM randman has responded

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4632 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 90 of 204 (259957)
11-15-2005 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by randman
11-15-2005 1:12 PM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yea, just asking for data you guys claim you have (but don't) is unreasonable, eh?

If you are going to say critics are just talking about "gaps" and state that no one can have "every link", then you are obligated to tell the truth, specifically how many of the theoritical links do you have.

You guys act like you have a substantial portion of the evolutionary chain. Just look at the stupid diagram above.

But in reality, you don't have enough "links" to even show that they are links. If we look at say, a proposed path of evolution that would take, say, 10,000 links, you have maybe, what 5 potentials?

It's laughable.

What's laughable is your compleat lack of understanding concerning the ToE. What's laughable is your willfull ignorance, and inability (refusal?) to understand the countless explanations made to you as to why your understanding of ToE is flawed.

It's also rather obvious that you are incable of refuting any actual POINTS made to you, so instead of trying to debate you would rather cast insults and gloat about your victory of ignorance.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 1:12 PM randman has not yet responded

  
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