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Author Topic:   evolutionary chain
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 204 (259905)
11-15-2005 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Christian
10-28-2005 6:10 PM


quote:
some possabilities might be the jumping aparatus of the click beetle, the spinneret and male copulating organ of spiders, the wing of a bat, the neck of the giraffe, the male reproductive organs of the dragonfly, the mammary glands or four-chambered heart of mammals, the shells on turtles, etc.
You should realize, of course, that soft tissues like hearts and mammary glands do not fossilize. Also, bat wing bones are tiny and fragile, which would mean that fossils of them would be easily destroyed and therefore rare. Same with insect soft parts.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-15-2005 10:05 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Christian, posted 10-28-2005 6:10 PM Christian has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 82 of 204 (259907)
11-15-2005 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
11-14-2005 10:27 PM


Re: Evolution has some holes, but there are a lot more in the whole "Noah's Flood" thing
quote:
Thanks for admitting that there are some holes in ToE.
There are holes in every single scientific theory in existence.
I don't know anyone on this board, or any scientist, for that matter, who denies this. Why do you think any of us would?
All of them are incomplete.
The ToE, however, has been demonstrated to have enormously useful predictive power; much more than any other scientific theory of the origin of species that has ever been proposed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 11-14-2005 10:27 PM randman has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 83 of 204 (259910)
11-15-2005 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by randman
11-15-2005 12:51 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
quote:
I'm not asking for an unbroken chain but for some sort of honesty from evolutionists. You have, at best, something like a handful of links in a chain that spans 4000 or more links. There is no rational reason why 99.99% of the links are not shown, and yet you still dishonestly suggest that what I asked for is every single link.
I just think when something like 90% of the evidence that should be there is non-existent that it is reasonable to question the model. You to this date refuse to deal with that fact.
Scientists do not have a very good understanding of how gravity works.
There are, in fact, sevearal competing scientific theories which attempt to explain it, but each of them have "holes" rather larger than the "holes" in the ToE, and none of them are as accurately predictive as the ToE.
Why do you attack Evolutionary Biology, casting aspersions, when this obviously weaker and less-supported area of science continues to be taught in schools?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:51 AM randman has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 204 (259911)
11-15-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by randman
11-15-2005 2:20 AM


Re: they can't do it, Christian
Yes, randman, please answer the question:
Do you have a cat? Can you show us the skeleton of your cat's great grandfather?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 2:20 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:01 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 108 of 204 (260146)
11-16-2005 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by randman
11-15-2005 12:01 PM


request for reply #2
quote:
I'm not asking for an unbroken chain but for some sort of honesty from evolutionists. You have, at best, something like a handful of links in a chain that spans 4000 or more links. There is no rational reason why 99.99% of the links are not shown, and yet you still dishonestly suggest that what I asked for is every single link.
I just think when something like 90% of the evidence that should be there is non-existent that it is reasonable to question the model. You to this date refuse to deal with that fact.
Scientists do not have a very good understanding of how gravity works.
There are, in fact, several competing scientific theories which attempt to explain it, but each of them have "holes" rather larger than the "holes" in the ToE, and none of them are as accurately predictive as the ToE.
Why do you attack Evolutionary Biology, casting aspersions, when this obviously weaker and less-supported area of science continues to be taught in schools?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:01 PM randman has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 109 of 204 (260147)
11-16-2005 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by randman
11-15-2005 12:01 PM


request for reply #2
quote:
Thanks for admitting that there are some holes in ToE.
There are holes in every single scientific theory in existence.
I don't know anyone on this board, or any scientist, for that matter, who denies this. Why do you think any of us would?
All of them are incomplete.
The ToE, however, has been demonstrated to have enormously useful predictive power; much more than any other scientific theory of the origin of species that has ever been proposed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by randman, posted 11-15-2005 12:01 PM randman has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 110 of 204 (260150)
11-16-2005 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by arachnophilia
11-15-2005 8:51 PM


Re: randman can't do it, Christian
quote:
tell me, have you ever even picked up an evolutionary paleontology book? taken a college level geology or biology class?
Ooooo, ooooo, I have, I have!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by arachnophilia, posted 11-15-2005 8:51 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by arachnophilia, posted 11-16-2005 5:12 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 111 of 204 (260151)
11-16-2005 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by randman
11-16-2005 1:32 AM


Re: randman can't do it, Christian
quote:
Basically yaro, other than genetics, I have not seen one major evidentiary claim by evolutionists that wasn't riddled with overstatements and deception.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hundreds of thousands of scientists are colluding to lie and decieve. I suppose they have ties to, or maybe even are, the Illuminati or something, too, right?
It must be truly amazing to have enough time and utter intellectual brilliance to be able to read the thousands of peer-reviewed papers related to Evolutionary Science that are published every year, and even more time spent getting the several dozen PhD's in various subjects that you wouldr require to be able to completely understand everything in each specialized field.
You know, I started a thread a while back fo you to pick a few Evolutionaty Science papers and specify where the "deceptions" and "overstatements" were, but you never seemed into it.
Perhaps you are now. I strongly encourage you to put up or shut up.
Produce some examples of these "deceptions" or retract the claim.
Now, to address the rest...
Randman, genetics is fully integrated into modern Evolutionaty Biology. That's why they call it "The Modern Synthesis" these days.
It was genetics (specifically the amazing congrence that was found to exist between independently-built genetic trees of life and morphological trees of life) that finally set to rest any lingering doubt that the ToE was very, very solid science.
It is genetics, in other words, that did the most to confirm the ToE.
So, if you accept genetics, you must accept the ToE, because genetics supports the ToE at pretty much every turn. It supports common decent with modification.
...that is, if you are an honest debater, or honest with yourself.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-16-2005 07:38 AM
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-16-2005 07:47 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by randman, posted 11-16-2005 1:32 AM randman has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 183 of 204 (283708)
02-03-2006 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Christian
02-03-2006 6:43 PM


Re: horse evolution
quote:
They tell children modern horse came from a four toed horse(Silver Burder, Earth Science 1987 pg 361).
Actually, it's was 4 toes in front, and 5 toes behind, IIRC.
quote:
What they don't tell kids is the original horse, the eohippus has 18 pairs of ribs, the mesohippus has 15 pairs of ribs, mirohippus has 19 pairs of ribs, modern horse is back to 18. (Prentis Hall Life Science 1991, page 500.) Going up and down with the rib count? Come on. thats not evolution.
...and the modern breed of Arabian horses has 17 ribs while all other horses have 18.
Why isn't that evolution, anyway?
Humans evolved from primates which had tails, and we now have a dinky little tailbone that is fused.
quote:
1. Made up by Othniel C. Marsh in 1874 from animal fossils he picked up scattered across the world, not from the same location. (He arranged them in the order he thought it happened)
Why is finding fossils all over the world a problem?
quote:
2. Modern horses are found in layers with and lower than anciect horses.
Cite?
quote:
3. The "ancient horse" is not a horse at all, it's a hyrax still alive in South America today. Ribs toes and teeth are different.
That is completely false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Christian, posted 02-03-2006 6:43 PM Christian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Christian, posted 02-08-2006 6:36 PM nator has not replied

  
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