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Author Topic:   Paul speaking only for himself (a question, not a debate)
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 6 of 16 (261173)
11-18-2005 11:55 PM


"not a debate"
Would it be wrong for me to point out that in the passage from 1st Corinthians
7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
the author is referring to a teaching which is explained in the gospels * Mark
10:2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 10:3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 10:5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
This covers a case where two believers are married, neither of them is allowed to leave. He doesn't have a saying to agraphify for the next case, so he talks on his own authority * 1st Corinthians
7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart.
And good riddance. Note the veiled cut at these folks, they aren't "really" married. But still, the believer can't leave them.
But he definitely doesnt assert that this application of the teachings is "just his own opinion" in the sense of not being authoritative
7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
Paul never has any trouble asserting that his word is THE Word
7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Nighttrain, posted 11-19-2005 3:42 AM Iblis has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 12 of 16 (261359)
11-19-2005 7:32 PM


Yeah Paul gets all the hot girls in Acts and * Romans
16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
He also doesn't have any trouble showing his opponents up in a name-dropping duel
16:6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.
Get it, "labour" ?!?
So anyway Wow
16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
Thanks for the reference.
Herepton writes:
the conquered British-Seleurian king Caradoc, known as Caractacus
Where's that documented from? (Other than Robert de Borron, I mean)

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 14 of 16 (262132)
11-21-2005 6:41 PM


Hard Reading
I suspect Paul might have talked himself to death
I bet he did! I'd like to say, maybe he tried to read what he'd written, but I wouldn't bet on that. But talked himself to death in the old country sense, you bet.
Paul writes difficult, information-rich sentences that are hard to follow no matter how sharp the translators might be. I had to read this bit Jar provides from Romans 3 several times to think I might be getting the gist of some of it
3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
What he appears to be saying is that when not just some hypothetical Jew but he himself when he was a Jew, when he studied and recited and memorized the Law, he didn't really believe it. Not just some theoretical modern Jewish atheist but he himself, Paul, he didn't believe what he was saying. He was repeating statements he at that time "knew" to be false, from an ethical viewpoint he was telling outright lies.
BUT that doesn't make the statements themselves untrue does it? The mental attitude of the person repeating the data does not make data that was true in the lab suddenly untrue at the copying machine through sheer magic does it?
To paraphrase a further application into a modern scenario, the fact that plenty of Bible scholars don't believe a word of it doesn't affect the quality of their job at all. Did you learn stuff? Are you studying hard? Are you full of the Word, have you had a hot coal set on your heart, do you have complaints to make against heaven? They are doing a good job then.
In the big plan, "atheists" who understand a variety of hashing methods and use them methodically to insure perfect duplication of texts have the best copy of the Old Testament because believers are too lazy and forgiving to keep extraneous material from creeping in.
* Oh, this certainly doesn't help with the idea of Paul having opinions that weren't authoritative. We get the idea that even though he didn't believe the Law when he was a Jew and subject to it, now that he is an Apostle and the Law is whatever he says it is, he likes it just fine!

  
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