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Author | Topic: In defense of nihilism | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
This is it: life has no objective purpose.
Isn't that the problem right there? "Purpose" is an inherently subjective concept. Thus any attempt to come up with an objective purpose is doomed to fail. But this need not indicate that there is any problem for us. It is simply a natural consequence of what we mean by "objective". If we want purpose in our lives, we must look within, rather than without. For it is of the nature of the subjective that it comes from within.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
prophex writes:
Of course we have meaning and purpose. It lies within us. That's what several of us had been trying to explain to you in the several threads you started.
This abyss of existence is more than it seems, we have purpose, that purpose lies within ourselves in our hearts, and minds, and souls. And this isn't subjective, this is real, this is true.
Come now, you can do better than that. Of course it is subjective. That's the very meaning of "subjective". Even though it is subjective, it can still be real and true. Is that where you have been making your mistake? Have you perhaps been assuming that only what is objective can be real? Science deals with the objective. But it does not deny that there is a subjective. Some people say that the subjective is an illusion, but they are surely mistaken.
Without it we would be worthless, ...
Without the subjective you would not be worthless. Rather, without the subjective you would not be. Your being is tied to the subjective.
Put aside my beliefs on God itself, through Christianity, and we cannot differ on these fundemental abilities that humanity must possess.
No, that's wrong. Your subjective, that you have purpose, that your live is meaningful, these do not depend on your beliefs in God. Some of the details of your purpose and meaning in life might depend on those beliefs, but having purpose and meaning do not depend on those beliefs. I'm not suggesting that you should give up your beliefs. I am suggesting that you develop a better perspective as to the role that they play in your life.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
quote:You have introduced a different meaning of "purpose". In the sense in which you used "purpose" in your OP, the chair has no purpose at all. Rather, we each have purpose and on the basis of our own purpose we ascribe purpose to the chair. Hmm, here's a question? Given that you can ascribe a purpose to the chair, does that not contradict your OP claim of a nihilistic lack of purpose?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
prophex writes:
On moral questions, truth is clearly subjective.
But truth is not subjective. There exists what is right, ... Relativism is deadly. Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative moral values on others.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
robinrohan writes:
Here are several possible meanings for "purpose": A purpose is what something is for. A chair is for sitting. Whoever made the chair designed it to be sat in. Which of these were you denying in your OP? I took it to be the individual purpose of the nihilist.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
In any case, it has a purpose because it was made by a being with some purpose in mind.
Thanks for clarifying which meaning of "purpose" that you had in mind. In that case, I was made by my parents and I cannot know for what purpose. Perhaps they were doing something for a different purpose, and I was merely a side effect. said by a creationist: I am saying we always only witness "poofs." Poofs are basic to what consitutes physical reality.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
prophex writes:
If there are answers, why are we unable to find them? Why do different cultures provide different answers?
On moral questions, there does exist answers that are clearly defined as right, and are objective. But we do not understand it, we see ourselves and the others around us, and we only know the opinions, and the environments that give us these opinions.
I will take that as an admission that you have no evidence to support your view.
Truth exists, we must search for it, and we must understand that all truth comes from God, because as humans the subjective concepts that we endlessly debate, are not truth, we can only catch glimpses of truth, we attempt to grasp it, and it haunts us.
Truth is a human invention.
You deny that absolute truth exists, ...
I made that statement only with respect to moral truth. The issue is more complex with respect to other kinds of truth.
..., because you see only on a plane that exists within our own lives and interactions, you must know that objective truth is not readily concievable to us because of our nature.
On the contrary, because of my study of human cognition, I have a pretty good idea of where truth comes from. That's why I say that truth is a human invention.
quote: The attitude of relativism gives people the right to not think about things.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
In a limited plane of existence, truth is a subjective concept, based on human opinions, actually invented through subjective beliefs of mankind.
That's not what I meant when I suggested that truth is a human invention. Language is a human invention, and truth is a concept that we needed to invent as part of language, in order to be able to express agreement and disagreement. Philosophers and theologians have mystified truth. They have made it out to be something which stands alone independent of language. But this only leads to an unnecessary mysticism.
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