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Author Topic:   rampant curiosity--how do you waste time?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 76 of 167 (262962)
11-24-2005 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by robinrohan
11-24-2005 10:24 AM


Re: My drinking routine
i know, right? i'm an A grad student... i'm a failure at life and i need an intervention.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 77 of 167 (262963)
11-24-2005 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by nator
11-24-2005 9:44 AM


Re: My drinking routine
not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics. there is a difference defined by need.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by nator, posted 11-24-2005 9:44 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by nator, posted 11-27-2005 9:27 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 78 of 167 (262968)
11-24-2005 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by robinrohan
11-24-2005 1:11 PM


nihilist bible
You forgot a beginning sequence ...
emptiness 1:1 in the beginning was the beginning of the beginning for before the beginning there was no beginning
emptiness 1:2 in the beginning was the beginning of the end for there can be no end without a beginning
emptiness 1:3 thus everything was ordained from beginning to end
emptiness 1:4 everything that is came after the beginning for it was not there at the beginning
emptiness 1:5 we cannot know what was ordained because we were not there
emptiness 1:6 thus everything is illusion.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 79 of 167 (263475)
11-27-2005 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by macaroniandcheese
11-24-2005 2:16 PM


Re: My drinking routine
quote:
not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics.
True.
quote:
there is a difference defined by need.
I think that alcoholism is defined a bit broader than that. You can be physically addicted to alcohol, and you can also be emotionally dependent upon it, use it as a way to "self-medicate" one's emotional pain, or as a way to calm insecurity and give a sense of confidence.
It is a psychoactive drug that makes you feel euphoria and confidence. If one likes that feeling much more than being in one's own sober skin, so much so that one tries to feel that way as much as one can, then I'd say you have a problem with alcohol as an emotional crutch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-24-2005 2:16 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by nwr, posted 11-27-2005 9:41 AM nator has replied
 Message 83 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 1:31 PM nator has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 80 of 167 (263476)
11-27-2005 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by nator
11-27-2005 9:27 AM


Re: My drinking routine
It is a psychoactive drug that makes you feel euphoria and confidence.
It has never had that effect on me. Maybe that's why I don't have an alcohol problem.

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 Message 79 by nator, posted 11-27-2005 9:27 AM nator has replied

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 167 (263479)
11-27-2005 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by nwr
11-27-2005 9:41 AM


Re: My drinking routine
yes, maybe. But euphoria and confidence is the typical feeling described.
At least, by happy drunks.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 82 of 167 (263497)
11-27-2005 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by iano
11-24-2005 10:24 AM


Re: My drinking routine
I reckon in any case, that if life has no externally-derived meaning then there is no such thing as wasting time - which could be said to be spending time in a meaningless (or in a less-than-optimally-meaningful) way
Oddly enough, I agree. If you're doing what you choose to do, then I don't see how your time is being "wasted."

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 83 of 167 (263498)
11-27-2005 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by nator
11-27-2005 9:27 AM


Re: My drinking routine
i did not define need as physical. but either way, your distinction is invalid.
chemical dependence is a result of the brain's demand for a specific reaction caused by the substance. this results in both physical and emotional reactions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by nator, posted 11-27-2005 9:27 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by nator, posted 11-27-2005 2:49 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 167 (263517)
11-27-2005 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by macaroniandcheese
11-27-2005 1:31 PM


Re: My drinking routine
quote:
i did not define need as physical. but either way, your distinction is invalid.
chemical dependence is a result of the brain's demand for a specific reaction caused by the substance. this results in both physical and emotional reactions.
Well, you are defining "alcoholic" as only someone with a physical addiction. That is not how it's defined by most psychological or health care agencies. There often is a physical craving for alcohol, but there doesn't have to be. Here's some definitions I found:
link
Definition
Alcohol dependence is a chronic pattern of alcohol abuse. An alcoholic gets used to the effects of alcohol and requires more alcohol to get the desired effect. This is called tolerance. A person with alcohol dependence may experience an uncontrollable need for alcohol.
link
A chronic disease characterized by a strong craving for alcohol, a constant or periodic reliance on use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking is stopped, and the need for increasing amounts of alcohol to feel its effects.
link
A need for repeated doses of alcohol to feel good or to avoid feeling bad.
link
Alcoholism is a dependency on alcohol characterized by craving (a strong need to drink), loss of control (being unable to stop drinking despite a desire to do so), physical dependence and withdrawal symptoms, and tolerance (increasing difficulty of becoming drunk).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 1:31 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 5:33 PM nator has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 85 of 167 (263556)
11-27-2005 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by nator
11-27-2005 2:49 PM


Re: My drinking routine
good job. you're affirming what i said and telling me i'm wrong.
want to know what psychology says? it says alcohol abuse and dependance is no different than that of any other drug.
psychoactive drugs affect the brain in specific ways. they cause receptors to behave differently. this creates chemical changes in the brain. the brain's chemistry causes its emotions. thus, your distinction between physical and emotional addiction is superfluous and mistaken.
The American Psychiatric Association has developed strict criteria for the clinical diagnosis of abuse and dependence. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual”IV (DSM-IV) defines abuse as:
* A maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by one (or more) of the following, occurring within a 12-month period:
1. recurrent substance use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, home (e.g., repeated absences or poor work performance related to substance use; substance-related absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect of children or household)
2. recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when impaired by substance use)
3. recurrent substance-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for substance-related disorderly conduct)
4. continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of the substance (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of intoxication, physical fights)
* The symptoms have never met the criteria for Substance Dependence for this class of substances.
[DSM-IV, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4. Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.]
Most often, abuse is diagnosed in individuals who recently began using alcohol. Over time, abuse may progress to dependence. However, some alcohol users abuse alcohol for long periods without developing dependence.
Dependence is suspected when alcohol use is accompanied by signs of the following:
* Abuse
* Compulsive drinking behavior
* Tolerance
* Withdrawal
DSM-IV defines dependence as:
* A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
o a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect
o markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
o the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
o the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)
[DSM-IV, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4. Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.]
i apologize for the ridiculous web source, but i have yet to go out and buy a dsm iv since i'm not a psych major and google only can help so much.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 11-27-2005 05:33 PM

i'm worldwide bitch, act like ya'll don't know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by nator, posted 11-27-2005 2:49 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 3:10 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 86 of 167 (263804)
11-28-2005 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by macaroniandcheese
11-27-2005 5:33 PM


Re: My drinking routine
I'll accept those definitions.
However, according to your source a couple of the signs of dependency are an increased tolerance and also abuse of alcohol, i.e. binge drinking or drinking to exess.
Definitions aside, it is undeniable that many, many people use alcohol to avoid dealing with their problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 5:33 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-28-2005 4:22 PM nator has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 87 of 167 (263805)
11-28-2005 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by RAZD
11-24-2005 1:22 AM


I can beat that
RAZD writes:
... being cutoff by a car making a right turn just after passing me and then braking hard to make the turn (with a bicycle hanging out of the trunk) ...
Once while riding through an intersection I was almost hit by three...count em...three separate cars. The fist sped past me only to then slow down abruptly to make the right hand turn in front of me, just like in your story. I hit my brakes pretty hard and he saw me in his rear-view mirror as I waved with just that one finger.
Upon seeing this though, the car waiting to cross the intersection (from my left to my right) decided that he should probably just go for it as well, almost hitting me in the process...but rather than stopping he simply swerved out around me as I hit my brakes for the second time after traveling about three feet from my previous close call.
And then the car waiting BEHIND this asshole decided that since the guy in front of him (the guy that had just nearly broadsided me in his rush to get through the intersection) had already come to his stop (before almost killing me), he didn't need to himself, so he made his left (in front of me...now headed in my direction) nearly ramming me from the side.
These occurred over about a four second time span and about 10 feet of distance. I simply lifted my hands up in the air and stated: "WTF people, do none of you know how to friggen drive?!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by RAZD, posted 11-24-2005 1:22 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 88 of 167 (263829)
11-28-2005 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by nator
11-28-2005 3:10 PM


Re: My drinking routine
psychology doesn't regard alcoholism as existing. it is only defined as alcohol abuse. it is the lay society that named alcoholism.
it doesn't matter why people abuse a substance, simply that they do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 3:10 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 4:24 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 89 of 167 (263830)
11-28-2005 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by FliesOnly
11-28-2005 3:23 PM


Re: I can beat that
ok, wow, that's quite a story.
And that's quite the beautiful fish you've got there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by FliesOnly, posted 11-28-2005 3:23 PM FliesOnly has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 90 of 167 (263831)
11-28-2005 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by macaroniandcheese
11-28-2005 4:22 PM


Re: My drinking routine
quote:
psychology doesn't regard alcoholism as existing. it is only defined as alcohol abuse.
So what is alcohol dependence?
Definitions aside, it is undeniable that many, many people use alcohol to avoid dealing with their problems.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-28-2005 04:25 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-28-2005 4:22 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-28-2005 4:31 PM nator has replied

  
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