In defense of nihilism

He could show up--although if he did, people might think he was an alien. I'm sure there's been a science fiction story written with such a plot. Some aliens study our culture and decide the easist way to conquer us would be to enact a second coming. They have all sorts of technology so could put on quite a show.You know, like what happened to Montezuma.

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Even though it is subjective, it can still be real and true. Is that where you have been making your mistake? Have you perhaps been assuming that only what is objective can be real?

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But truth is not subjective. There exists what is right, we can only speculate and debate on what we think it is. There is actual truth, that some might say is "in the eye of the beholder", what is subjective is the human speculation that comes with trying to find this truth, not the truth itself.Relativism is deadly.This message has been edited by prophex, 11-28-2005 07:45 PM

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well sure as planets come, i know that they end
and if i'm here when they happens, will you promise me this my friend?
please bury me with it
i just don't need none of that mad max bullshit

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In fact, I could rephrase what you stated. I could say that we have purpose, and that purpose is an objective. That objective is to know Christ. To know Him who lives in our hearts,and our minds, and our souls! Without Him we are empty. Filling the void with twinkies, or beers, or pot, or heartless sex! Unable to come to a realization of the truth, for without a Love for it, emptiness is the final destination. Hell is not about demons, pitchforks, and frustrated frenzied agony so much as it is about emptiness. A picture of a dead man...a dead woman...with no life within them for they left themselves empty.
nihilism \n-e-li-zem, ne-he-\ n 1 : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless 2 : anarchism 3 : terrorism nihilist \-list\ n or adj nihilistic \n-e-lis-tik, ne-he-\ adj

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Exactly. I left out the glorious effect of the Christ, but you boldly portrayed what I maybe should have said with God in the center. And you are right, why should I compromise for the benefit of the discussion, when the portrayal of my beliefs are at stake. I can relate to what you said, and I understand this emptiness.By the way, I still laugh everytime you call me twindrix lol.

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well sure as planets come, i know that they end
and if i'm here when they happens, will you promise me this my friend?
please bury me with it
i just don't need none of that mad max bullshit

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"Purpose" is an inherently subjective concept. Thus any attempt to come up with an objective purpose is doomed to fail.

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Things that have been intentionally made have objective purposes. The purpose of a chair is to be a thing to sit on. Of course you could also use it as a ladder, but that's not its purpose.

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You have introduced a different meaning of "purpose".In the sense in which you used "purpose" in your OP, the chair has no purpose at all. Rather, we each have purpose and on the basis of our own purpose we ascribe purpose to the chair.Hmm, here's a question? Given that you can ascribe a purpose to the chair, does that not contradict your OP claim of a nihilistic lack of purpose?

On moral questions, truth is clearly subjective. Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative moral values on others.

I don't see this. A purpose is what something is for. A chair is for sitting. Whoever made the chair designed it to be sat in. But nobody made people presumably, so there's nothing that we are especially made for. If a god had made us, one assumes he would have done so for a purpose (to love Him, or something).

He did show up, Robin, and He left many witnesses behind to tell the story. He spoke to Abraham among others, later to Moses, and then to the entire chosen people, as a pillar of cloud that was fire by night, and the Shekinah glory in the temple, but above all in His miraculous provisions to them. He showed up in the messages He sent direct to His prophets, and finally He showed up in the person of Jesus Christ. He said if we don't believe His witnesses we don't believe Him. And I guarantee you He is going to show up again, when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD," but then it will be too late to change your mind.This message has been edited by Faith, 11-28-2005 08:49 PM

Why is He playing this game with us?

That has to be a really fun fantasy. Like, no matter what any of us heathens say to you, you can just sit there in your chair and rub your hands and just dream about our ultimate humiliation and destruction at the hands of your death god.I mean, I wish there was a similar pleasure for atheists, but the problem with there being no afterlife is that there's no way to experience being wrong about the existence of the afterlife.

Here are several possible meanings for "purpose":

individual purpose - it is my purpose to work toward making this world a better place than it would otherwise be;

convention purpose - we conventionally say that the purpose of the chair is for sitting;

relational purpose - robinrohan sees the purpose of the chair as something he can sit on while imbibing his evening refreshment; the furniture manufacturer sees the purpose of the chair as a sale item to bring in profits;

three way relational purpose - pastor A says that the God (B) made person (C) for the purpose of singing His praises.

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Which of these were you denying in your OP? I took it to be the individual purpose of the nihilist.

You didn't mention his Special Purpose.

Ah, but there is a similar pleasure...right here and now. Atheists can enjoy a Garden of Earthly Delights free of the shadows of sin, guilt, and damnation.OTOH, even if atheists are wrong about there being an afterlife, they could still discover that all this sin and damnation nonsense is, well, nonsense, and the deity doesn't give a fig leaf for it: wouldn't the believers be steamed if they found atheists sittin' pretty right beside them in paradise?Or how about if the believers discovered they have it exactly backwards, and a hedonist, fun-loving deity wants no part of them? The Bacchus Hypothesis.I'll see if I can come up with some more atheistic fantasies. I bet robin would be good at that, too.

What makes you think atheists don't feel guilt? I feel guilt all the time. Just because sin doesn't exist, doesn't mean our actions have consequences; and like a reasonable person, when I exchange short-term pleasure for a long-term benefit - or, worse, hurt someone out of selfish gratification - I feel guilty about it.I mean, I do take a fair bit of pleasure out of freely and guiltlessly doing things I know the religionists fear to do. That's fun. But I don't imagine it's as universal a pleasure as salivating over the thought of your enemies getting their just eternal punishment. I mean, that never gets old. But there's only so much sin I can sin.

What makes you think I think atheists don't feel guilt? Being short-term avid and long-term stupid, or hurtful, is not in my catalog of earthly delights. I especially like that one. That's a bit overrated, I think: cold comfort in the cold night. Just try. That's all that Bacchus asks of us.

Funny, I just reread my post and I don't see anything about an afterlife, or chortling at your destruction. Must be a fantasy of your own.