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Author | Topic: Church spreading aids | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: I'm not thrilled with the wording of the first post, but the point is good. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I agree. Something to this effect probably is what they are being told. The trouble is that it is going to clash with the local cultures and end up not helping and possibly hurting. While passing out condoms is a lesser shock to the culture and may actually do some good. To me, the church is choosing doctrine over lives. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: It can also be argued that a viral agent is the ultimate cause for the AIDS pandemic.
quote: It apparently has never been a problem before. I can't think of another STD that kills within the expected lifespan of the infected person, assuming that person lives in a third world country.
quote: No doubt.
quote: Absolutely. That is why the RCC's position is so infuriating. They must radically change the culture before their policy will have any effect, but during the time it takes to do that 100 million people die and a great many more suffer the repercussions. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Yes, I do know what you mean. Just being a pain in the butt? hmmm.... not entirely. With STDs, HIV in particular, there is a real tendency to treat them as moral issues, as behavioral shortcomings. They aren't. STDs are diseases just like colds, malaria, dysentry, or gangrene. But with these diseases the disease take the heat, (even though there are behaviors which can help control those diseases) not the person who contracted it. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Welcome to Brad... ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Cancer? Why stop there? What did we do to deserve smallpox? Influenza? Malaria? Hookworms? Downs Syndrome? Hydrocephalus? Dysentry? Come on funk, surely you have the master list? And what did cows do to deserve Mad Cow Disease? Or anthrax? What did cats do to deserve feline leukemia? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Actually, sex was a gift to be used inside polygynous married groups and between the patriarch and sex-slaves called concubines. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: This follows from my synopsis of the cultural conditions described in the OT? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Well, he didn't tell anyone to stop and in fact blessed the participants in those cultural practices. All of the patriarchs were polygamists, I believe. Most were at any rate. Gideon, Solomon, David, Abraham... all had multiple wives. The Bible flaunts it. It is pretty clear. In Exodus 21:10, you have instructions pertaining to the taking of a second wife. Deuteronomy 21:15 has rules for dealing with two wives, one loved and one hated. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: The Bible is pretty clear on this, funk.
quote: Why is that? Does God complain about it, or punish anyone? No. Does god bless the patriarchs with many wives? Yup. Does God give Nathan wives? yup!! 2 Samuel 12:8. Christ implies his approval when he tells a tale involving ten brides and one bridegroom. Matt. 25:1. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: You have got to be joking? Why is it that your current moral sentiments trump the morality illustrated in the book that is supposed to be your moral standard?
quote: God made no bones about telling people what not to do, but this was never condemned, nor even poo-poo-ed just a little bit. NEVER. In fact, the number of wives a man had is frequently cited as a measure of his success.
quote: Your quarrel is with the Bible, not with me. I am the one accepting what is written, and you are the one saying it ain't so. And curiously, all you can do is say it ain't so. You can't provide anything to illustrate the point. Tell me who is misrepresenting?
quote: Right. Of course not. How do we know what God condones? hmmmm..... do we pick and choose the bits we like? Nope. That hardly seems right, since the Book is supposed to be a guide. So what do we do? Well, God punishes people for certain activities and God expressly forbids most of those same activities. We know those are condemned. What God doesn't condemn he condones. Simple. It isn't like God didn't know this was happening.
quote: I don't personally care what the Bible has to say, funk. It carries no weight for me. It is a book of mythology. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I don't have a problem with polygamy, provided that all consent. Funk, however, does appear to have a problem with it.
quote: That's the only proscription I found as well.
quote: Polygamy is a social structure, as such laws for or against it effect me. Why wouldn't I care?
quote: Funny that you bring that up. Banning it is religious intolerance, or at least cultural intolerance, and has no place in the legislation of a free country, IMHO. Contrary to what you probably imagine, I am not for legislating against any particular religion or ethnic group. I am for the removal of legislation that is based on particular religious ideals. Large parts of US law is based on particular religious ideals. Marriage laws are an example. Government should not have this sort of power over its citizens. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Nor was it made a requirement.
quote: hmmm... you'd have a hard time making a case, since pretty much every major male player in the OT had multiple wives.
quote: No. It seems to be a non-issue in the OT to me. It was just the way things were.
quote: An impossible solution is a death sentence for maybe 80 million people, if I recall the death toll estimates correctly. The thread was started because the RCC is pushing the impossible solution instead of a practical one. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
Funkie, buddie... something is going wrong with your posts. I can't reply-quote them. Only two lines show up in the response window. Thought you might like to know.
quote: It worked quite well for, probably, thousands of years. That is why they did it. That's why the practise got started and that is why it was maintained throughout the OT.
quote: hmmm... people didn't get along then? Go figure
quote: Polygamy is cross-culturally ( historically ) the most common form of marriage. That would not be the case if it did not produce positive results in many circumstances. That last element is key.
quote: How many diseases are moral problems, funk? You've got a disease that intersects with your particular version of morality and so you ditch the fact that the disease is caused by a virus just like any other viral infection. The solution is behavioral, not moral. The rates among gay men in the US are lower than they were ten years ago. Why? Gay men are being more careful, though not careful enough. Is anal sex between men who use condoms not a moral problem? While it is a moral problem if the condom isn't used? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Funk, go get yourself some good books on cultural anthropology. No offense, but you are arguing from so much ignorance that it is painful to watch.
quote: At least you don't make the "God made AIDS to punish fags" argument. Still, a great many, perhaps all, infectious diseases are assisted by our behaviors, yet you don't make these behaviors and diseases moral issues.
quote: This is different from dogmatism. ------------------
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